New Keen Kutter's and Hammer Brands

johnnierotten · Post by **johnnierotten** » Tue May 01, 2007 5:45 pm

Does anyone know who's making these?..A friend of mine thought the maker was Queen...I think they look more like Parkers....
Does anyone own any of these? If so,hows the quality? ..I was thinking of buying some,but thought I would ask for opinions first..

El Lobo · Post by **El Lobo** » Tue May 01, 2007 6:07 pm

Hi j-r,

I'm going to go with Bear and Son.

"Well now El Lobotomy....er, Bill...why do you say that?"

Because Bear seems to be the only maker using only the backspring pin, and no others on the scales...and, Bear typically hasn't/doesn't use shields either.

Here is one of the Stockmen patterns I've got, for comparison...

Plus, we know the families go way back, since Jim Parker once owned what is now Bear and Son.

Again, JMO.

Bill

stockman · Post by **stockman** » Tue May 01, 2007 6:14 pm

I don't want to offend anybody, but I wish knives like these were not produced, It takes away from real Keen Kutters and New York Knife Co. knives.

Stockman

jonet143 · Post by **jonet143** » Tue May 01, 2007 6:16 pm

smkw sells them at very low prices. i guess china.

edited- after visiting the bear and son sight, bill might be on to something. bears prices were in line sorta with smkw prices.

edited- does bear make all their knives in house?

rosconey · Post by **rosconey** » Tue May 01, 2007 6:28 pm

i bought a bear & son walden muskrat-
nice knife for the money-as good as any china piece at the same price-
in all truth it was better built than the gec i just bought-sharp also

hard to beat for 20 bucks-

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Tue May 01, 2007 6:43 pm

stockman wrote:I don't want to offend anybody, but I wish knives like these were not produced, It takes away from real Keen Kutters and New York Knife Co. knives.

Stockman

I couldn't agree more. I do like how GEC is doing it with deeply stamped dates on the tang. No way to grind it off without wrecking the knife. If it's going to be done, it should be done so it is difficult, if not impossible to pass it off as an original. Dated and changed tang stamps do help.

Another part of me says to leave the old admired names rest in peace.

The keyboard warrior

rosconey · Post by **rosconey** » Tue May 01, 2007 6:48 pm

can camillus be far behind?

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Tue May 01, 2007 7:04 pm

rosconey wrote:i bought a bear & son walden muskrat-
nice knife for the money-as good as any china piece at the same price-
in all truth it was better built than the gec i just bought-sharp also

hard to beat for 20 bucks-

I see you have gone from outright flaming GEC to delivering petty cheap shots. We would appreciate it if the BS cheapshot stuff remained at Blade Forum. You had a bad couple of experiences in your opinion, get over it, AGAIN! You are in a den where most like GEC and condemn your cheapshots. You in truth have very little experience with GEC. Get over it OR go back to Blade where cheap shots are the norm.

If I see a pattern like this I will call anyone on it! This is not the first cheap shot we've seen since you were called out for your flaming remarks. We know your opinion on GEC, your cheap shots are giving us an opinion of you.

rosconey · Post by **rosconey** » Tue May 01, 2007 7:34 pm

so opinions that differ from yours arent welcome-
i just call them as i see them-goodbye

if opinions arent welcome maybe you should keep yours to your self also-

and i dont see how saying bear and son makes a decent knife for the money is flaming gec-

El Lobo · Post by **El Lobo** » Tue May 01, 2007 7:50 pm

Actually rosconey, Hukk is a Moderator here, and I think he's just trying to get you to relax a bit on the GEC thing. We just take some pride here at AAPK in not getting as "EDGEY" (

) as some of the other forums seem to get.

Bill

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Tue May 01, 2007 8:07 pm

rosconey wrote:so opinions that differ from yours arent welcome-
i just call them as i see them-goodbye

if opinions arent welcome maybe you should keep yours to your self also-

and i dont see how saying bear and son makes a decent knife for the money is flaming gec-

No, Tirades and agendas are easy to see. You don't offer much that is constructive and do not miss many chances to fling barbs, easy to see also.

rosconey wrote:in all truth it was better built than the gec i just bought-sharp also

What you said was that a Chinese made Bear and Son is better built than GEC and it was sharp. You know there are complaints of dull knives from GEC.

Therefore this has NOTHING to do with opinions. Do not even think we can not see what you are attempting to do. Opinions are welcome, tirades and agendas are not. Differing opinions are also welcome, calm down and let it go about GEC, you still miss very few chances to whine. The continuing agenda

is not welcome.

rosconey wrote:in all truth it was better built than the gec i just bought-sharp also

rosconey wrote:and i dont see how saying bear and son makes a decent knife for the money is flaming gec-

You made the first comment then the second. How on earth could this not be construed as a cheap shot? The second quote is certainly not what you said. You make the same flaming and cheap shots at blade, this is not blade, keep it over there.

rosconey · Post by **rosconey** » Tue May 01, 2007 8:37 pm

for the record-those bear and son waldens are AMERICAN MADE

so it was a apple to apple comparison

so if you want to make me look bad at least get your info right -or do you have a agenda against me-lol

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Tue May 01, 2007 11:00 pm

YES, You finally got it!

That was my entire point, you made a comparison, denied it, then finally admitted it. THAT"S THE WHOLE POINT!

So I had to do a little trick to get my point across. You were set up

Now back to to the norm. You are under the microscope so to speak because of your flaming on GEC. Many members called you on it. Now any comparison you make in regards to GEC vs. basically anyone will be taken as a cheap shot. All are aware of your flaming on blade please keep it there. We are tired of the whining. I have no agenda against anyone, maybe Chinese knives, but I will even call on that if I see to much mudslinging.

rosconey, please PM me if you feel the need. Lets keep the boards clean.

justold52 · Post by **justold52** » Tue May 01, 2007 11:13 pm

I hope you all have a great day!!!

Watch your thoughts; they become words.
Watch your words; they become actions.
Watch your actions; they become habits.
Watch your habits; they become character.

Life's short. Hug your kids! or Grand Kids !

IMO

johnnierotten · Post by **johnnierotten** » Wed May 02, 2007 12:33 am

Hey,Ken,thats words to live by!!

Johnnie F wrote

does bear make all their knives in house?

They say they do in there "about us" section on there web site...

Hukk wrote

rosconey, please PM me if you feel the need. Lets keep the boards clean.

Good call!!

Bill,I believe your right,They do look like Bear and Sons....and Stockman,I agree,I don't think I'lll be buying any for that very reason!!
..Thanks guys!!

nmikash · Post by **nmikash** » Wed May 02, 2007 3:11 am

I am 100% positive that Bear makes the Keen Kutter knives as they are in their 2007 product catalog. I am pretty sure that they also make the Schrade Walden & Hammer lines as well. I have a S-W peanut by them and its a decent knife for the price. I feel that supporting the company supports the American cutlery industry- I would rather see a Schrade, Hammer, or Keen Kutter with USA on the stamp than China. Business is business and the names have changed hands, but at least these knives are American made. Why not try one Johnnierotten and see what you think?

Nick

needbucks · Post by **needbucks** » Wed May 02, 2007 1:09 pm

From what I have heard, and I do not pretend to know it all, Bear and Son was commissioned to put together some of the last of the American made parts from the factory buyout that SMKW and BRK. The Schrade trademarks are now owned by someone else , I think Taylor Cutlery. Taylor is, as far as I know, having new knives made overseas with the Schrade and related trademarks.

Bear and Son either owns the Keen Kutter trademark or SMKW does and they are having Bear and Son manufacture them, supposedly in the U.S. I hope so anyway.

I am not sure about this part, but I believe that the New York Knife Company and Hammer Brand trademarks are now owned by SMKW and they are having them manufactured by Bear and Son.

I don't know how much of this is accurate but it is my understanding from viewing the Knives Live show on Mondays and Tuesdays.

My apologies for any inaccuracy.

johnnierotten · Post by **johnnierotten** » Wed May 02, 2007 3:50 pm

Thanks for the info, guys.

I'm watching these two on ebay,I may bid on them.

jholcomb · Post by **jholcomb** » Wed May 02, 2007 4:01 pm

They are most definitely manufactured by Bear right down the road from me in Jacksonville, Alabama.
Stewart Taylor bought the Hammer Brand, Schrade Walden, and Walden Knife Co. trade marks when Schrade went bankrupt, and licensed Bear to make them.
I'm not sure who owns the Keen Kutter trade mark, but Bear makes them as well. (Taylor may own it too... I know Schrade made a line of Keen Kutter knives in the early '90s.)
They are decent knives... good users. A tad bit flat for my taste.

johnnierotten · Post by **johnnierotten** » Wed May 02, 2007 4:31 pm

Thanks for the info!!

Yeah,I know what you mean about FLAT look...The bolsters look like they were made in Pakistan!!

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Sat May 12, 2007 6:54 pm

Sorry for my timing on this one, I should have and meant to apologize for all members of AAPK earlier.

I had observed rosconey's actions on Blade Forum where he goes by rosconey2. He had a tirade there against GEC with a few posts and starting a couple threads and when they called him on it he stopped and moved over here.

He began his tirade against GEC here on AAPK and it is my belief that too many member's gave him credit for his "knowledge" with his brief and limited experience of GEC knives, but always delivering venomous rants against GEC.

I am suggesting that we do not give new members a lot of credibility until they have given proven knowledge. It was wrong of him to come over here and renew his tirade and it was wrong for us to allow him to continue his rant as long as he did, we only encouraged him by agreeing with him.

I had caught on to him finally and notified Bryan and we agreed he was offering nothing and inciting members not to buy GEC knives. I think that if anyone has bought one since he left, they are probably sorry that they listened to him and wish that they had bought GEC knives earlier as we are finding out that althogh they had some earlier problems, they are a very wise investment and a high quality knife, but quality still ranges from average to near custom, so, QC is still being worked on and they are appropriately addressing those concerns.

We called him on it once, I and several others and he stopped his tirade. But within this post he began to compare GEC with inexpensive knives (just once but cut it off before it goes any further) and I called him on it, but he played dumb when I told him that he was comparing GEC with cheap knives. So, I can play that also. I called an American made knife Chinese, figuring he would catch it. Sure enough, he admitted that he was comparing the knives, which was my point to him all along. We can see he had an agenda from the moment he joined. It is not right that I had to set a trap for someone, he was not the kind of member that makes our site what it is.

This thread started out good and turned ugly. I was tying to look out for the good of all.

I apologize that I had to stoop to this level but I think we want members to be honest and straight forward. There is no place in AAPK for those that want to deliver a tirade, constant rants, and offer nothing viable in return.

I suggest that we either leave this posts as is or remove them, pm moderators if you would like to see them removed. It doesn't matter to me either way. They do serve as a lesson, not to jump to conclusions unless you have some actual experience or know someone personally that does. Many members did not have a chance at those fine stag knives because of the timing of his posts.

I do apologize that I had to write this, with everyone's welfare in mind. I also apologize that I had to set someone up, we do need to monitor ourselves within reason.