1984 Bulldog 3 3/8 Serpentine Stockman Kentucky Derby

[Hukk]

I posted the first picture with 3 knives on another thread. I am adding 3 more pictures of the 2 stag knives because they are so different. The dark stag knife has blades that are essentially mint, while the knife on the right has much nicer stag and some pepper spots on the blades and backspings. The dark stag is very thick, but the one on the right is much nicer. This one with the thicker stag is the one I was told may or may not be a real first generation Bulldog. I know that they made 804 of the stag handled knives with the horse shoe shield and 110th Run for the Roses etch. Any opinions?

I thought more pictures may be helpful in seeing the differences.

[Hukk]

Does anyone see the difference in these 2 knives? That the pulls are different on the master blade. One deeper, the other more shallow.
Also, the light one with the stag has (first generation) has
S & D CUT CO on the tang of the master blade. That's what it should have and all of mine do, except the one with the dark stag. This is the same frame as the 3 3/8 Oktoberfest and all mine have S & D CUT CO on the tang of the master blade.
The one with the dark stag has Bulldog Brand Hammer Forged, not S & D CUT CO. My opinion is that these must have been made at different times.

I can take pictures of the different tang stamps if anyone wants to see them.

[El Lobo]

Sure Hukk...

I've never seen the S & D stamp.

One more thing, look how high and squared up the shoulder area is on this knife, and the Bulldogs I own. In your other thread, the eBay knife has quite a rounded fall line at the spine of the Master. Still curious what's up with that Master.

Bill

[jonet143]

hey hukk, is it my eyes or are the shields different sizes as well?
it seems to me that new "old" knives are being produced out of germany and blending in to market.

[Hukk]

Here are the pictures of the tang stamps of the 2 stag Kentucky Derby Sowbellies. As far as I know they should be the same and should be S & D CUT CO , why The fighting Bulldog stamp seems a little lighter stamped on the darker stag knife.

Click on the pictures to more easily see the tang stamps.

[jonet143]

the hafting style on the left knife looks like the squared style used today while the stag on the right is rounded to the bolster

[Hukk]

the hafting style on the left knife looks like the squared style used today while the stag on the right is rounded to the bolster

I think you are correct there. I must also say the all my 3 3/8 S & D CUT CO knives (Oktoberfest and Kentucky Derby) have great snap and they are among my favorites. The Kentucky Derby with Bulldog Brand tang stamp is on the limp side, not nearly the same. Snaps like boiled spaghetti.

[DAllmond]

I think you are correct there. I must also say the all my 3 3/8 S & D CUT CO knives (Oktoberfest and Kentucky Derby) have great snap and they are among my favorites. The Kentucky Derby with Bulldog Brand tang stamp is on the limp side, not nearly the same. Snaps like boiled spaghetti. ::doh::[/quote]

I believe you'll find that the original knife "S & D" was made in 1984 and the other was made in 1993 witk some leftover blades. It's my understanding that all Bulldog Brand knives were made in the same Friedrich Olbertz factory. For more Bulldog info try : http://www.simplysarasota.com/KnifeColl ... Brand.html

"Second Generation. 1991 - 1992. Jim Parker purchased the Bulldog Brand Knife Company. In 1992 the Olbertz factory shipped about 7,000 Bulldog knives to the USA. Later, some knife parts were purchased from Blue Grass Cutlery to complete additional Bulldog knife sets."

This is a quote from an eBay listing. "This one is from our collection, we purchased it in September of 1993, and kept stored in the safe until now! Produced in 1993 from ORIGINAL leftover parts. "

[olderdogs1]

Hukk,
I think you are on the right track with these Bulldog Ky. Derby knives. It is interesting that they are still a sale item in the last Parker's magazine I received, with the 1984 blade date, of course. What is a little confusing and hard to understand is the # of knives that Bulldog said were produced in the 1st generation. The price guides say 804 stags were produced. The great majority of 1st generation Bulldogs were produced in quantities of 300 to 400 with a few exceptions but none approaching the 800 mark. I think it is easy to say that the knife with the S&D tang stamp is a genuine 1st generation. Whether there were 804 produced with the S&D blades and good stag is another matter. Tony Foster's booklet produced in 1990 does call for the 804 knives produced. It is just that you see far more of these bulldog Ky. Derby knives with the dark stag and not having the S&D blades than you do the ones that have the great stag. Kind of creates a question in my mind of what was actually produced in 1984. Just my opinion of course.

[Hukk]

My thanks to DAllmond and olderdogs1. I happen to have possesion of the first 2 catalogs under Jim Parker's ownership. I wonder if they are in there. I will look tonight. It sure would be nice if everything was documented correctly, make it easier to know what you have, exactly. Just my opinion, but situations such as this breed mistrust. What's real, who's on first? Guess you really got to dig.

[Hukk]

Welcome to the site DAllmond, I would appreciate ANY information you may have on some of the Bulldog knives with the question marks such as the tobacco king sowbellies. Thanks Again!