ID Help? - Unstamped Fixed Blade Hunter

[pinnah]

I'm wondering if anybody has any ideas about this hunting knife. It used to belong to my grand-father and while it's utterly priceless to me for sentimental reasons, I have no thoughts or hopes of monetary value with it. Still, I would like to know as much as I can about it as I can.

Some background and information about the knife. My grandfather was born in 1908 and was raised in northern Vermont. His father owned a small general store that dealt with guns and hunting supplies among other things. The village he grew up in had several knife and axe making shops/factories around the turn of the century. The Winchester shown in the second picture was his and is dated to 1907, which would be consistent with him getting a used gun out the stock at his dads store. As an adult, my grandfather moved to the Boston area where he had a job that had him traveling extensively around New England, New York and Pennsylvania.

The knife has no tang mark. The blade measures 6 1/2" and the total length of the knife is 11 1/2". I *think* the blade is carbon steel as there is some corrosion on it but, I could be way off as I'm not good with this sort of thing and the blade is very highly polished (under the scratches). The handle is stacked leather and there is a single pin visible through the end cap (which has 3 notches filed in it for 3 of his deer).

Again, I consider this a treasured heirloom along with the Winchester and old Johnson Woolen Mills jacket. But any ideas on the knife would be really appreciated.

[chetr1200c]

i would have to say, judging by its size and the way the handle is assembled, and also your grandfathers roots. that this was/is a custom made knife by a local from that region. i do not know for sure, that would just be my guess. but whatever origin it is,, i would love to have a treasured hierloom like that, along with the stories it could tell.
very nice family treasures you have there...

chet

[rangerbluedog]

with the exception of the blood grooves, I'd guess it was based on the pattern of the Mark 1 Navy knife (MK1).

MK1NavyKnife.jpg (45.1 KiB) Viewed 805 times

[IMBand]

Take a look at a couple Pal RH36 knives. They are very close to what you have pictured there.

IM

[knife7knut]

Take a look at a couple Pal RH36 knives. They are very close to what you have pictured there.

IM

Close but no cigar.The handle is very reminiscent of the Remington/PAL knives but the blade seems to resemble an E.G.Waterman or a Catt 225Q.Size is off though.

[Miller Bro's]

It looks like a WW II era "Theater" made knife to me.

[Owd Wullie]

Way cool old Mod 94, jacket, and knife. Great family history there.

Don't see many 94's with a tang sight these days. Is that sight a Lyman?

The knife looks like it was shop made or hand made to me. Looks very nicely done and has that WWII flavor that MB mentioned or maybe they just took the idea from an RH-36 as was previously mentioned.

The sheath looks to have been hand made with some loving care as well.

Great stuff, thanks for showing it.
W

[pinnah]

Willie, I'm fairly certain the peep sight (and the folding v-sight) are Lyman but will double check. I took my 11 year old son hunting in VT last weekend on the same ground that my grandfather took me out and I carried that gun. People ask, "Why do you hunt?" and really, words just escape me. My son and I worked through an open, swampy section of woods that looked like a moose highway. One of those rare moments and places in life that are perfect.


Getting back to the knife, what is "theater made" mean? Somebody has suggested to me that this looked like a "Japanese knock-off" and I'm curious how "theater made" or Japanese made knives would have made their way to the northeastern retail market in the 50s and 60s.

I think we can rule out a custom or one-off manufacture from any of the local shops he grew up near. If the pattern was older (like a basic bowie variant) that would have been possible as knives of that sort may have kicking around in his dad's store in the early 1900s. But, the knife factories would have all been shut down by the end of the 1800s, long before the Mark 1, Mark 2 or RH pattern knives would have emerged.

Thanks all for the help.

[knife7knut]

Here are a couple of pics of an E.G.Waterman knife;note the similarities in the fuller and general blade shape.Don't know what the blade length is on your knife but the Waterman is 7 1/2".
They weren't a particularly good knife quality wise. The biggest drawback(aside from the very thin blade)was the fact that the handle was held on by the ring on the pommel.If you lost or broke it,the knife was useless.Also if the handle loosened from shrinkage of the leather there was no was to tighten it;except maybe adding more leather discs.Don't imagine there were a lot of spare leather discs floating about in a combat zone.
These knives were usually stamped "E.G.W." on the guard but this particular one has no markings.Probably a later model when they discovered how poorly these were made and didn't want to identify with them.

[RobesonsRme.com]

In 1941, your grandfather was 33 yrs of age. Did he, by any chance, serve in WWII?

A "theatre made" knife is a knife that was made in one of the "theatres" of WWII, such as the "Pacific Theatre".

Such knives were generally re-made or made by a craftsman, engineer, mechanic, etc. Most ended up with cast aluminum handles or stacked disks of plexi-glass.

I think stacked leather washers would be a bit unusual, because the reason theatre knives got new handles in the first place was because the climate in the Pacific caused them to rot.

I think a case could be made for that being a cut down E. G. Waterman blade with an altered leather handle and an aluminum pommel scavenged from a Navy Mark I.

E. G. Waterman was a manufacturer of fountain pens, but with the war going on, they either wanted an opportunity to do their part or they saw an opportunity to make some money, so they made these knives. They were never an issued item, but were sold on the open market.

I can see where a Waterman could have become broken and someone ground down the blade to create a new full length tang, put those leather washers on it and capped it with a Mark I pommel.

That's the vibes I get from the knife.

The vibes I'm getting from 94 Winchester are something entirely different.

Charlie Noyes

[Owd Wullie]

Willie, I'm fairly certain the peep sight (and the folding v-sight) are Lyman but will double check. I took my 11 year old son hunting in VT last weekend on the same ground that my grandfather took me out and I carried that gun. People ask, "Why do you hunt?" and really, words just escape me. My son and I worked through an open, swampy section of woods that looked like a moose highway. One of those rare moments and places in life that are perfect.

I used to answer that question with, "I just love to hear the sound a 180 grain slug makes when it hits the deer."
Got lots of strange looks from that answer.

Nowadays, if somebody asks, I don't bother answering with anything more than a smile. All the crowd I run with these days pretty much thinks alike and that question hasn't come up in a long time

The description you just gave is a great answer and your statement of "rare moments and places in life that are perfect" covers it better than I could have.

[pinnah]

Charlie, my grandfather didn't serve and didn't good about. He was the business manager of a college (and later, the president for many years) and was exempted from service because of that. He worked in a local ship yard at nights and served as a Civilian Patrol coordinator but, no, he didn't serve.

Willie, the peep sight is a Lyman. Do I understand that the adjustable height v-sights were also made by Lyman too?