Some Camillus Knife Lore

[Gr8Scout]

Some Camillus knife stuff and an gracious offer you will not believe..
First things first.
The original Buford Pusser knife, which included a 'big stick' knife sharpener. Don't confuse this nice collectible one with the later issue done in conjunction with... I think.. SMKW. Tom has sent me some more informaton on these last week, but by the time we talked about it, I had already mailed the stuff to Larry for inclusion on the new Camillus site. Sorry 'bout that Tom.

Tom asked me to post these boxes. Kinda old, huh? He will fill us in. I like finding these myself, fun to find at least one of the knives they were supposed to hold to stick inside of them. Also, here is a mint looking rocket knife by Camillus, and these things have really gone up in price. Has a whistle on it and I don't know what else.
Tom, I leave it to you to tell the guys about this stuff.

The 'Gracious Offer', I have decided, merits its own post in this thead.

Thanks, Tom

Phil

[Gr8Scout]

You all 'met' Tom's mother while watching the news video... the lovely lady sitting at the very old fashioned typewriter. Here is what Tom wrote to me last night:

" I had dinner with my mother and father today and I asked Mother if she would share her experiences at Camillus with the viewers on AAPK. She handled the special customers like Kabar, Buck, Sears, Imperial/Schrade and others. Would the viewers of AAPK be interested. My mother worked at Camillus from 1947 through 2000. Let me know."

Guys, we have a unique chance to go back in time, when so many things were so different than they are today. Mrs. Williams obviously was part of the Cutlery's resumption of 'civilian life', if I can put it like that. I know what my answer is...

Phil

[El Lobo]

Absolutely Yes!!

Bill

[jonet143]

we await.

[upnorth]

I don't have a television; I traded it for a knife (just kidding! I can't stand to watch them!) But I can watch a DVD. Is it possible to get the discs/videos of Tom, and Mom??

[W5RWU]

Thanks Phil & Tom keep the camillus coming !
See ya Randy

[sunburst]

Great stuff, I agree keep it coming...

[LRV]

Tom,
Please let you mom know there are lots of folks out here interested in hearing her story.
When you record the interview and need some copies made let me know.
Glad to help getting it out there.
Thanks for asking her.
Larry
P.S.
Phil, thanks for posting the great shots from Tom.

[CAMCO]

The Buford Pusser knife was made specially for Mr. Fred Robertson, owner of Robertson's Pawn Shop in Finger, TN during the mid 1970's. Each knife had a special pewter handle insert, "Buford Pusser" blade etch, serial number engraved on the bolster and came packaged in a flip open box thjat contained a minature "Big Stick" (actually a #9380 sharpening steel). 5,000 knives were ordered, but only about 3,500 were actually made. The original selling price was $50.00 and today these knives can bring $100.00 to $150.00.
The second Buford Pusser knife was made in 2003 for Smoky Mountain Knife Works. These knives are dated "1986" and use the blades left over from the Sears 100th anniversary knife. They can be identified by the reddish/yellow handles and no serial number.

Tom Williams

[CAMCO]

I do not have any dates for the knife boxes. The boxes marked "Sword Brand" would have been made in 1906 or later as that is when this brand was introduced.
The boxes also have the early 5 digit model numbers ( I believe that they are pre-WWII because most knives in the early 1940's had 4 digit model numbers). If anyone can date these boxes, please let me know.

Tom Williams

[CAMCO]

The rocket ship knife was introduced in 1952. This model was made with either a red body and yellow tip or a yellow body with a red tip. The knife has a spear blade and combination caplifter/screwdriver. The end of the knife has a siren whistle. Each knife came with a plastic lanyard.
You can sometimes find examples of this model, as well as the Lone Ranger knife, that are etched "Rail City Museum" and "Sandy Pond, NY" that were made for a theme park in Upstate New York. This business was owned by Dr. Groman who was a personal friend of Mr. Nilo Miori, who was the president of Camillus Cutlery Co.
When I was a youngster my mother came home one day with two rocket ship knives for my brother and myself.

Tom Williams

[orvet]

Tom,
I would love to watch the interview with your Mother! We need to capture these bits of history while we can, lest they slip form our grasp.

Please thank your Mother for being willing to share her experiences at Camillus.

Thanks you,
Dale

[CAMCO]

My mother will share her experiences with the members of AAPK. When I visit her I will post some of her recollections of the knife business. During her years at Camillus she handled the special private label customers and she visited many of the knife companies in the U.S.
She is now 80 years young and has a remarkable memory.
Does anyone have any questions? With Camillus closed we can now talk about subjects that were once confidential. You may be surprised as to who Camillus made knives for (just about everybody)!

If you collect rigging knives they were probably made by Camillus. Rigging knives were a low volume item and it was more economical for one company to tool up and make them for other knife companies. Camillus made the marlin spike knives for Case, Kabar, Buck, etc. as well as under their own name.

Tom Williams

[singin46]

I love those old boxes, thank you. and yeah lets do it. Love the history,
about all I watch is the History Channell.

Singin46

[orvet]

Tom,
It is interesting that you mention the rigging knife. It was one of the pieces I had on my "to get list" but hadn't gotten one yet. I promptly ordered one when I heard that Camillus was closing.

In the 1980s, when I managed a cutlery store, I ordered a Camillus rigging knife for a friend, Greg, who had one when he was in the Navy in Vietnam. In the 1980s he was working in the Pipe Fitters Union and told me that the spike came in handy. They broke a cable on a job site and it would take a day to get another cable to the site. Meanwhile work was stopped without the crane. Greg set to work with his Camillus rigging knife and spliced the cable and got the crew back to work in about 2 hours. Needless to say the foreman was very pleased.

Questions for your Mother:
The most obvious that I think we all want to know, "Who were all the companies Camillus made knives for?"

If she was working at Camillus during WWII, I would like to hear about what the working environment was like at Camillus then.
"Did people really put in extra time & go the extra mile to get knives out to the troops?"
"Were the workers at Camillus united in their support of the troops?"
"What were the short cuts (if any) they had to take to produce some of the knives, due to shortages of materials?"
"What is her best memory of working at Camillus?"

Please express to your Mother, my personal appreciation for her willingness to share about her working life at Camillus. Living on the West Coast I have never had the chance to travel to New York and visit the knife factories, something I had always wanted to do (Schrade & Camillus specifically). Sadly, that will never happen since Camillus has closed too.

Thank you Tom for taking the time to share all you have with us at AAPK. I imagine this is a sad time for you, your family and friends. Thank you for sharing!

Dale

[radicat]

Thanks Tom, I recently mentioned on a forum that my "KA-BAR" rigger's knife was much like the Camillus pattern. Mums was the word still, so you guys couldn't say much then. I do wonder if the master blades on the pre WWII "KA-BAR" was sometimes shaped a little different from the Camillus. Also the Kabar that I have has a swedge on the master beginning at the nail pull. I really want this knife to be Camillus made. That's why I bought it.
It was ebay item # 270077515721 . Better pics than I do. Thanks

[radicat]

At the risk of starting a new category of collecting for myself, I will ask what Camillus marked knives were not made by them?

[ea42]

Box number one is an old one. Wardlow was a nineteenth century steelmaker in Sheffield. Crucible steel was also developed on the nineteenth century in Sheffield and was a much more stable steel, ideal for knifemaking as it didn't contain slag like the blister steel it replaced. I would date that box as a late 1800's early nineteen hundreds as a starting point since we imported a lot of steel from Sheffield at that time. I could be way off though, if someone has access to model numbers or timelines of steel suppliers, it would probably be easier to date it.
That interview is a fantastic idea and very gracious of you to offer.

Eric

[CAMCO]

I had a conversation with my mother today and she recalled all the knife companies that she has visited:

Utica Cutlery, Ontario, Kabar, Schrade (Ellenville, NY), Case Cutlery, Cole National in Cleveland, OH (parent company of Kabar), Buck Knives (both the old factory and new factory), Colonial Knife Co. and Imperial in Providence, RI.

She also visited a knife manufacturer in Mexico but she does not recall the name. (I remember seeing the owners of this company at the Camillus factory).

Camillus made parts for the Colonel Coon Knives in Columbia, TN. This company was owned by Adrian Harris. My mother visited this company in 1980 and attended the Mule Day Parade where she met Billy Carter (President Jimmy Carter's brother).

Tom Williams

[CAMCO]

radicat

The only companies that I remember that made knives for Camillus were Western Cutlery (three fixed blade knives with leather handles-#1006, #1007 and #1008), Syracuse knives made by a company in Poland-Gerlach?, CAMCO knives made by a company in Ireland that was owned by Albert Baer, knives imported from Germany by the Kastors such as A.W. Wadsworth, Morley, etc., and the recent CAMCO and ROBO assist line of knives from Taiwan.

Tom Williams

[CAMCO]

orvet,
My mother was not working at Camillus during WWII. She joined the company in 1947. I did have other family members that did work at Camillus during WWII.
During the war, Camillus employed about 700 workers. My mother's cousin Lucy worked during the war and she told me that she was hired to work in the office, but she would spend half of each day assembling knives and also worked on Saturdays. Everyone at Camillus pitched in and did their part for the war effort. Camillus received the Army/Navy "E" Award for Excellence on several occassions.

Many Camillus employees enlisted during the war. There is a plaque at the factory that commemorates those that were killed in WWII.

Many materials used to make knives were in short supply during WWII. Brass was not always available so many knives were made with steel linings. M3 trench knives were made with several different handle materials when leather was not available.

Camillus employees were 100% behind the war effort. In addition to their outstanding performance in producing knives, many workers bought war bonds to finance the war.

Tom Williams

[Bryan]

I'm still a rookie on the subject of knife lore, so I don't post much. I just try to take it all in like a sponge.

I feel compelled to say how much I've enjoyed the information that is exchanged here. This stuff is priceless in my opinion.

Thanks for sharing. It is greatly appreciated There is not much that fascinates me more than this old history. Today I've been extremely intrigued

Bryan

[Gr8Scout]

As so many of us have discovered, Bryan, old knives have soul.

A good time to post these pics Tom sent to me of some Colonel Coons by Adrian Harris. Those were some great knives, and my Col Coon five inch toothpick is one of my favorites... and the blade on that thing looks exactly like that on the Remington Stren fishing knife made by Camillus.
Tom, tell the guys how you came by these 'coons, and what is 'Mule Day'??

Interesting knife lore as always, Tom. Also, here is a pic of a book by Adrian Harris. I have never seen this one.

And here are some more names for my favorite pattern: Dance or Tango knife. Saturday evening knife. East Dallas Special. East St. Louis Special. Saturday Night Special. Powderhorn. Tickler (Bernard Levine's term for these) or Rib Tickler. The Buck toothpick (made by Camillus), has a 'California Toothpick' blade etch.

[Mossdancer]

As long as you two will talk, you will I am sure have an appreciative audience. I would even like to hear some of the side bars of your Dads
thoughts during that half century plus. Thank You for even considering us.
wb

[upnorth]

That book by Adrian Harris on knife repair has some very interesting stuff in it! A great book for the newbie, as well as having some advanced technique in it. The problem I found is that it wasn't comprehensive enough. It, and the other book on repair by Kelley should be about 4 or five times as thick with how-to information!!