What's wrong with the knives made in China?

glenn · Post by **glenn** » Sun May 08, 2011 12:05 am

+1 ,J R

Tom Hudson · Post by **Tom Hudson** » Sun May 08, 2011 4:04 pm

johnnierotten wrote:Tom & Bob......I think you both do fantastic work and customizing.
I also think that all opinions are welcome...

It’s just a simple fact that this is 2011 not 1911 - Times change - Markets change - Materials change – Technology changes – If a person wants to compete in today’s world he must change with it or get left in the dust - Yes bolsters on RR’s are help in place with adhesives; I found that out the first time I took one apart. Since that 1st one it’s never been an issue – I know what I’m working with and adjust my workmanship to the project – A person must be able to adjust – If someone brings me a Gold Rail Road watch to engrave – I have to use a more finesse on a watch then if someone brings me in a 9 inch ford rear end housing to engrave for their 40 Merc Low Rider - As a professional it's my job to only to accept work I know I can complete in a professional manner - As a cranky old ******** I also reserve the right to refuse any work I don't want to work on - After over 30 years of customizing knives I no longer Re-Handle knives - as some folks on this forum know - Not because of how today’s knives are made - All I accept now is engraving - Knives are a small part of my business - But thats OK - they have been a part of my life for a very long time.
Tom

Elvis · Post by **Elvis** » Sun May 08, 2011 4:24 pm

Tom Hudson wrote:It’s just a simple fact that this is 2011 not 1911 - Times change - Markets change - Materials change – Technology changes – If a person wants to compete in today’s world he must change with it or get left in the dust - As a professional it's my job to only to accept work I know I can complete in a professional manner - As a cranky old ******** I also reserve the right to refuse any work I don't want to work on

I don't mind getting left in the dust because I don't do this as a profession. I also like a lot of the knives made in 1911 and I am not competing with anyone. I repair knives that folks consider family heirlooms and restore collectibles. I'll stick with the traditional methods of building a pocket knife and reserve the right to not work on throw away knives.

mikekoz · Post by **mikekoz** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:49 pm

I think the main difference is just quality. Most Chinese made knives are junk, but not all. I own a few Rough Riders, Chinese Bucks, Schrades, and they are decent knives. I would not trust any of them though, if I was using a knife every day for any heavy duty task. You do not have to spend a lot of money to buy an American made knife. Over the last few years I have bought a Buck 110 (35.00), Buck Vantage ($25.00), Kershaw folder ($30.00), Bear and Sons Stockman ($35.00), Case Sodbuster Jr. (18.00), and a small Case folder at Lowes for $9.00!! I also have several Leatherman knives that were under $30.00. One problem may be with changing trends. I find most people that buy knives these days are not buying slip joint knives like you see on this forum, they are buying Benchmade, Spyderco knives, which I find ugly, but there is no denying they are top quality. I have gone back to using and carrying the old style knives because they do not look like weapons and a lot of them are pieces af art! I find most Case knives overpriced, but I think they make a lot of knives just for collectors, and a lot of people buy them hoping they will go up in value one day. If you are the average person just looking for a knife to use and put in your pocket, the price would steer you away. I would not spend more than $150.00 for a knife. For what I do with a knife though, that is overkill, so I use the knives that I mentioned earlier. I do not collect knives and keep them for years in glass cases like a lot of you do. At one point that was my intention, but I have other interests and resposibilities right now, so I am just an occaisonal buyer.

garddogg56 · Post by **garddogg56** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:37 pm

Mike K ; I think they call em modern tacticals I bough a few they do nothing for me I'll take an old slip joint,fixed blades,MIL,and hunting knives anyday

Although I EDC a spring asist Kershaw Onion and a SODBUSTER jr Case I just love old American knives with the history that comes with them,just like my old Pontiac T/A and Fatboy then there were kids they(twins) graduated sat nite so it's back to the old toys yeahaaaa.......

knives-are-quiet · Post by **knives-are-quiet** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:38 am

Ramrod wrote:It wont stay sharp for long.......

By all means, I am no big fan of anything made outside the United States.
But I got this China made Schrade in 2005.
Got it as a gift at Christmas.
I work in construction and have carried and used this knife almost every work day since I've acquired it. Have only needed to sharpen it once in the five to six years of use.
The blade on this knife will take an above average edge. The type I call "scary sharp"...
The staglon scales are very tough also. I chuck this knife around all the time and the handles have almost no scratches.
I have a few other Schrade stockman’s I purchased years later. They are not bad for Junkers but do not come close to the quality of this one.
Is it because this was the first year these knives were produced in China and the company wanted to make a good impression?
Or is the steel or blade and handle material from this knife a left over from the original Schrade Co. and stamped China? Or did I just get lucky and got some freak super knife?
I have no problem with this particular China made Schrade.

J W

Ramrod · Post by **Ramrod** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:05 pm

Sharpened one time in 5-6 yrs? I guess you did get some kind of freaky super knife..
Mark

garddogg56 · Post by **garddogg56** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:55 pm

quiet knife ;now don't get me wrong, little constrution story; There once was a young apprentice age 18 that showed up on his first big job it twas a Biomass boiler job with his first set of tools he was told by his super to catch up with his JW AT THE TOP OF THE BOILERHOUSE,apon arriving there he was greated by his new JW and crew,they proceded to work till 9am 'coffee time'where they gathered outside the switchgear room where one of the brothers asked the "cub" lets see what a new cub is swinging for tool now a days,apon inspection the JW went to the edge of the roof and tossed every jap and china tool off the roof into the river( Androsscogan river)(spellcheck) ..Well the rest of the day went on with the cub a little amazed.At quiting time all the JW'S AND THE CUB WENT TO THE BACK OF THE STOCK TRAILER TO STRIP OUT SOME 500MCM CABLE AND TOLD THE CUB TO BRING AROUND HIS TRUCK load the copper in CASH UP AT THE SCRAP YARD and buy some Klein USA tools and a set of CARHARTTS before the japs and chinamen come to MAINE and take your job over . Well as you see they never came here to take MY job over

they sent my job over their.(AND WITH THIS COPPER MONEY I ALSO AQUIRED MY FIRST BUCK 112 RANGER THAT I STILL CARRY AT WORK TODAY)38 loong years later

now the moral of this story is ALLWAYS REMEMBER;Buy AMERICAN the job you save WILL be your own

Peace Love Out

garddogg56 · Post by **garddogg56** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:05 pm

OH buy the way the only kleins I had in my pouch that day were extra's my Dad (a retired JW) had given me

on loan

knives-are-quiet · Post by **knives-are-quiet** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:41 am

garddogg56 wrote:quiet knife ;now don't get me wrong, little constrution story; There once was a young apprentice age 18 that showed up on his first big job it twas a Biomass boiler job with his first set of tools he was told by his super to catch up with his JW AT THE TOP OF THE BOILERHOUSE,apon arriving there he was greated by his new JW and crew,they proceded to work till 9am 'coffee time'where they gathered outside the switchgear room where one of the brothers asked the "cub" lets see what a new cub is swinging for tool now a days,apon inspection the JW went to the edge of the roof and tossed every jap and china tool off the roof into the river( Androsscogan river)(spellcheck) ..Well the rest of the day went on with the cub a little amazed.At quiting time all the JW'S AND THE CUB WENT TO THE BACK OF THE STOCK TRAILER TO STRIP OUT SOME 500MCM CABLE AND TOLD THE CUB TO BRING AROUND HIS TRUCK load the copper in CASH UP AT THE SCRAP YARD and buy some Klein USA tools and a set of CARHARTTS before the japs and chinamen come to MAINE and take your job over . Well as you see they never came here to take MY job over they sent my job over their.(AND WITH THIS COPPER MONEY I ALSO AQUIRED MY FIRST BUCK 112 RANGER THAT I STILL CARRY AT WORK TODAY)38 loong years later now the moral of this story is ALLWAYS REMEMBER;Buy AMERICAN the job you save WILL be your own Peace Love Out

Nice story.
There is only one thing though... I don’t know what the construction business is like up it Maine but it is a lot different around Pennsylvania way. I've been in the construction business for 34 years. Started out as a laborer when I was 16.
It doesn't matter where your tools are made. It is a code of honor on the job site not to touch another workers tools without being ask no matter who it is, Boss or not. That JW would have ended up in that river along with the China made tools. It is sacrilege to mess with another mans tools foreign made or not.

J W

<PS> I was born in Maine. Spent the first seven years of my Life living in Brunswick.
I have revisited many times. It sure is beautiful up there……

johnnierotten · Post by **johnnierotten** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:53 am

It is sacrilege to mess with another mans tools foreign made or not.

This is true..

garddogg56 · Post by **garddogg56** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:13 am

For which it is true never mess with another mans tool,but the just of the story is if you feed the competition they will overrun you, I NEVER AT THAT TIME THOUGHT THE INDUSTRIAL MACHINE WE CALL THE USA WOULD BE RUN-OVER BY FOREIGN COMPETITION DURING MY YEARS IN THE TRADE BUT YA KNOW THAT OLD JOURNEYMAN WAS DEAD BALLS ON

and you know if it wasn't for AMERICAN INDUSTRY we would have NEVER won World War two,now just imagine if god forbid another world war we the US would never recover

Just my .02c worth

....PS I was in PA in 05 my twins were in the little league world series BEAUTIFUL country I am an avid flyfisherman,met some locals they showed me some GREAT trout fishing and a cookout + horse-shoe tournament including a beer drinkers tour of Pa. WOW

I didn't know they brewed so many beer in that state.

Elvis · Post by **Elvis** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:52 am

I'm glad you're having such good luck with that Schrade JW. The following is NOT directed at you though.

Guys, there have been some responses to comments made here that are clearly pretty defensive in favor of Chinese knives. The only point I want to make here is, when you ask a question like "What's wrong with the knives made in China?" Don't expect a bunch of responses that blow sunshine on Chinese knives. With that question you are going to get replies that tell you what IS wrong with knives made in China. If you want a different answer, try asking a different question.

philco · Post by **philco** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:32 am

Elvis wrote:I'm glad you're having such good luck with that Schrade JW. The following is NOT directed at you though.

......... If you want a different answer, try asking a different question.

OK. So dude, like what's wrong with my new girlfriend?

Elvis · Post by **Elvis** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:00 pm

I'm clearly not qualified to answer that one Phil.

Here's hoping the correct answer is nothing. In fact, if she puts up with your knife hobby as well as my wife, I'd recommend hanging on to her (Good come-back though!).

garddogg56 · Post by **garddogg56** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:11 pm

Elvis wrote:I'm glad you're having such good luck with that Schrade JW. The following is NOT directed at you though.

Guys, there have been some responses to comments made here that are clearly pretty defensive in favor of Chinese knives. The only point I want to make here is, when you ask a question like "What's wrong with the knives made in China?" Don't expect a bunch of responses that blow sunshine on Chinese knives. With that question you are going to get replies that tell you what IS wrong with knives made in China. If you want a different answer, try asking a different question.

Elvis;you are right,I am just expressing my real life views ,I for one am directly effected buy overseas competition . :

:and I just have a love for QUALITY-CRAFTSMANSHIP+PRIDE

whitebuffalo58 · Post by **whitebuffalo58** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:52 pm

I didn't make it through the whole thread, but did anyone ever point this one out?
China 440A=Carbon 0.45-0.75
U.S.A. 440C (or better)=Carbon 0.95-1.20
This is a direct quote from a top expert in steel manufufacturing.
"440A & B are low in Carbon and therefore unsuitable for better quality knives"
When you see the marking on global knives that simply says 440 stainless or "surgical stainless", it is indeed 440A!
Fact is surgical stainless is lower carbon to higher chromium content. With the exception of scalpal and other cutting blades, surgical intruments need only to contain enough carbon to create the equivelant to backsprings in pocket knives. The high chromium content creates a higher polish for sanitary reasons.
I'm currently looking into the quality of contents in the brass and nickel silver used in China vs. U.S.A. Something tells me there's a difference there too. Ever notice the yellower, brassy look to China's nickel silver?
I'm not trying to start the arguement all over again, but if you start looking into the technical aspects of the materials used, looks like there are more differences than just labor costs.

johnnierotten · Post by **johnnierotten** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:53 pm

Well I guarantee that they cut they're costs every which way possible...

FRJ · Post by **FRJ** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:51 pm

Sarcastically speaking.........well, boys, I wouldn't let the purchase of a few Chinese made knives bother you in light of the fact the the good ol' U.S.of A. is giving China tens of millions of dollars annually in foreign aid.
I heard this on the news last night.
That might not be news to some of you, but I did not know that.
It's likely from several administrations I guess.

garddogg56 · Post by **garddogg56** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:12 am

I guess were trying to buy all the friends we can afford

xstuntman · Post by **xstuntman** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:17 am

I agree with kives-are-quiet.

I've got two import Schrades and both are very well put together.
I know for a fact the blade on my 120T is HARD, i'm thinking 440HC from a little checking.
It laughed at all the usual stones I use and I had to bring out the big dog.

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:12 am

Elvis wrote:I don't mind getting left in the dust because I don't do this as a profession. I also like a lot of the knives made in 1911 and I am not competing with anyone. I repair knives that folks consider family heirlooms and restore collectibles. I'll stick with the traditional methods of building a pocket knife and reserve the right to not work on throw away knives.

Well said Bob!

I am old, crippled and grumpy (some days more so than others).
Repairing knives is my hobby, not my livelihood. In my mind my hobby should be something I enjoy.
I enjoy working on old knives with a history, not on the latest import shoved upon us by a government that treats us like subjects instead of citizens and chases manufacturing businesses overseas with idiotic laws and taxes.
The freedom to choose what I work on in my hobby is one freedom I will exercise, just as long as it lasts.

johnnierotten · Post by **johnnierotten** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:06 pm

The freedom to choose what I work on in my hobby is one freedom I will exercise, just as long as it lasts.

That’s one of the many reasons that I like you,Dale!!

gringo · Post by **gringo** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:37 pm

well...i made a friends wife cry last saturday...here she comes with what appears at a distance to be a swiss army knife...a bizzillion blades...
she hands it to me and asks what i think....

well..."chinese, wouldn't pay a quarter..."
this before it leaves her hand....
then...oh do i stop...naw...too intelligent...
"yep...chinese, see???, it is marked on the back of the blade"...
"you wouldn't pay a quarter?" she asks...

"NOPE".
end of conversation...beginning of hysterical weeping. ?
for a chinese knife?????

no wonder i am single. i just have no clue.

OLD GAR · Post by **OLD GAR** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:08 pm

johnnierotten wrote:Well I guarantee that they cut they're costs every which way possible...

Johnni - - The greatest problem I have isn't with all aspects of China's manufacturing, palagerizing, selling cheap (illegal) knockoffs or hazardous products they send out for world wide consumption, that is bad enough.

But it is the blatant disregard for American workers and families, by old time American Name Brand CEO's leaping at the chance to take advantage of cheap labor, and their supportive politicians who get big political contributions along with the Chinese bosses who can disregard industrial pollution, worker safety and have a captive work force.

Bought any Justin Boots, Levi Jeans, Skill Tools, Delta Tools, Craftsman Tools, Buck, Marbles, Schrade or Remington knives? These and several other NAME BRAND Corporations have fled this country for the cheap labor pools in many different parts of the world. Pundits will blame American Workers, Restrictive Environmental Regulations, Worker Safety etc.etc.etc. IMHO it is GREED GREED and more GREED...........

I know I got way off topic but recently I bought a little Yellow Handled Buck Toothpick. ! ! - - Guess what MADE IN CHINA ! ! ! Very well made but still a cheap shot at the workers who lost jobs when the Buck Management decide to flee to China and to the unsuspecting customers who unwittingly helping the demise of our manufacturing abilities. . .

Got my flame suit on.

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