SMKW

chesterrunner · Post by **chesterrunner** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:48 pm

I am not a big viewer of the SMKW show but I did catch some of it last night.It was pretty obvious that those guys were putting a lot of emphasis on American made knives.I had not noticed this on previous shows.I couldn't help but think that it had to do be related to all of the discussion here that was generated over the Chinese 'Red Ryder" post.I think it may be awhile before they have Mr. Woo back.Did any of you catch the show?

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:12 pm

I didn't watch that show, Ive only watched it once, that was enough. It was a few months ago, I think was SMKW, they were pushing a lot of Taiwan/Chinese knives. 1 knife caught my interest as they were selling a 4 1/4 Bulldog Equal End Stockman Cattle King as a first generation. The knife was actually a Third Generation Bulldog and they had a half dozen or so as I recall. Anyway, according to Jim Parker's books, the first generation did not have the word Bulldog stamped across the bowtie shield and it had a tang stamp that showed it was surgical instrument steel, which they did not use in production until 1993. By using these 2 keys from Jim Parker, it apeared that they were selling a knife from the third generation that booked at $90.00 as a first generation that books at $175.00 according to JP's 7th edition. I think it was going for around $90.00 or $100, don't remember the price exactly though. Anyway, I figured I'd seen enough.

tank · Post by **tank** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:47 pm

yesssir hukk its 3rd gen with the inscripted shield from all i've read too, i just picked one up for 30ish on ebay. beautiful knife. the scale matches the bolster but looks thinner in the pic.

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 12:53 am

tank wrote:yesssir hukk its 3rd gen with the inscripted shield from all i've read too, i just picked one up for 30ish on ebay. beautiful knife. the scale matches the bolster but looks thinner in the pic.

You got a good deal, there are some real bargains out there for Bulldog Brand knives on ebay now.

sunburst · Post by **sunburst** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:03 am

Hukk wrote:
You got a good deal, there are some real bargains out there for Bulldog Brand knives on ebay now.

Hey Hukk,

I've seen you say that more than once lately, what do you attribute the good pricing to lately??? Post Christmas prices..?

Sunburst

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:33 am

sunburst wrote:
Hukk wrote:
You got a good deal, there are some real bargains out there for Bulldog Brand knives on ebay now.
Hey Hukk,

I've seen you say that more than once lately, what do you attribute the good pricing to lately??? Post Christmas prices..?

Sunburst

I don't know. I have recieved emails from friends that say it's because Jim Parker passed on, others say that the quality of the current crop of knives is damaging prices across the board. Actually I did not think that the Christmas prices were that good except on some really rare knives that did show up. Some sellers are getting some decent prices, but across the board they seem to be lower compared to the last couple years. I have come into some real bargains, 1 of 1 and 1 of 3 for $50- $75.00.
Ebay listings such as this one don't help IMHO.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Bulldog-Pre-Factory ... dZViewItem

Whoever heard of a pre first generation?

The Saddle Tramp was released in 1982, BKC-31 (first generation 1978-1987). I did recieve an email on this knife. It was the opinion of the sender that this looked like it was made last week because of the stag--Stag Controversy thing again. I have it on my watch list and will need to look to see how mine compares.

Maybe it is a combination of things.

It would be nice to see prices go up some

olderdogs1 · Post by **olderdogs1** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 3:30 am

Every time I look at that saddle tramp and compare it to a real one it makes me wonder where this thing is headed.

The original Saddle Tramps never had a date on them but the knife pictured is not even close to a 1st generation. I don't care so much about the prices on the bulldogs but I hate to see a counterfeit in any brand. After watching some of he Case counterfeits go for 300.00 even after the sellers posted the fact that they probably were counterfeits it makes a person wonder if deceit and money is all a lot of people care about.

Hukk if you will post a picture of yours which is not a counterfeit I am sure people can see the difference. I can post one of mine if you don't want to but you are better at the picture game than I. Sorry for the ramble but it is a little disconcerting to see it continue, Especially when some of the people who are writing a new book on bulldogs are some of the same people who are misrepresenting their knives that they sell on Ebay.

Believe me ., a lot of people know the difference.

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 3:37 am

I will post a picture tomorrow with some others also

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:41 am

Hukk wrote:I will post a picture tomorrow with some others also

Ok here are some pictures of the Saddle Tramp (2) and a sister knife with the Pitbull trademark etch per request. Sorry, these are not my best pictures. Due to a lack of time I just went out back and took the pictures off the back deck.

Any comments? Please look closely at the pulls with the picture enlarged, notice the number of serrations in the pulls, I think this is what olderdogs1 is talking about.

Please click on the pictures for a larger view

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:52 am

Some 3 3/8 Serpentine Stockman Kentucky Derby Knives, as promised. I was told that the stag on the knife on the left was not really a First Generation.

Any opinions?

I have some other pictures that I will make on seperate posts.

olderdogs1 · Post by **olderdogs1** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:50 am

Hukk,
To comment on the Ky Derby Knives I think we all can agree that the lower right hand post is pure 1st Generation. I don't think you can rule out the other stag as 1st gen. as Bulldog made over 800 off these stag knives and I have seen a lot of these knives with similar stag that were produced years ago. Parker is selling these 1984 dated knives in their latest magazine publication which would lead one to think there were still some old blades floating around although they are not specific of course. Wish I could be more certain.
Olderdogs1

olderdogs1 · Post by **olderdogs1** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:41 pm

Hukk,
The Saddle Tramps you posted I think are both legit. The serrations on the blades are of course different but the saddle tramp that has the most serrations on the blade is surely 1st generation, beautiful stag, whereas the other saddle tramp has the blade that I would normally associate with the 1st generation knives. I would welcome any comments from anyone that may have a definitive answer. I haven't been able to find anything that would nail it down for sure.
Those are beauiful knives and I have always been impressed with the quality of that gunstock pattern.
Olderdogs1

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:20 pm

olderdogs1 wrote:Hukk,
The Saddle Tramps you posted I think are both legit. The serrations on the blades are of course different but the saddle tramp that has the most serrations on the blade is surely 1st generation, beautiful stag, whereas the other saddle tramp has the blade that I would normally associate with the 1st generation knives. I would welcome any comments from anyone that may have a definitive answer. I haven't been able to find anything that would nail it down for sure.
Those are beauiful knives and I have always been impressed with the quality of that gunstock pattern.
Olderdogs1

Thanks for your answers on both knife sets. That does make me feel a mite better. It could be that this sort of confusion, even by some collectors that causes prices to come down. I knew that over 800 Ky Derby Knives in stag were made, so I was surprised to hear that comment.

The question I have is what sets these saddle tramps apart from the one on ebay?

olderdogs1 · Post by **olderdogs1** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:19 pm

Hukk,
Once again I have to admit that I am speculating when I say this but I know this opinion is shared by many long time collectors. What in my opinion sets these knives apart from the knife on Ebay is the stag. THe stag just doesn't look like the kind of stag that was put on the 1st generation bulldogs in the early 80's. THe stag on the the Ebay knife shows bright white on the ends with the rest of the stag appearing new to me and others. When you post your Tobacco Kings I think the difference will bear me out.
I know that there is nothing definitive in writing to verify this. This is just the opinion of myself and others who like to collect the old true 1st generation bulldogs. There have been some of the old stag Bulldogs on Ebay recently that have sold in the 150.00 range. I think this indicates that others are picking up on this. I think the old bulldogs have a distinctive look and feel that the present knives just do not have.
Again this is just my opinion and people can take it for what it is worth to them, maybe less than 2 cents. I do know that if you go to the bigger knife shows it is not unusual for dealers to have their bulldogs separated in different cases (new from the old), same blades but different stag. Big difference in the prices they ask also. They will tell you the same thing I'm saying, that the newer stag knives such as the one on Ebay was made later. I think they are right.
Thanks for letting me ramble on this long post.
Olderdogs1

El Lobo · Post by **El Lobo** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:21 pm

Here is where I was supposed to be...

It's great to read you guys working these Bulldogs over...very informative.

I'd agree that the eBay knife is likely European Deer stag, and shows much more Olbertz influence (white and shaved)...than Hukk's older Sambar beauties, finished out in a Dorton, or early Senior Parker kind of way. Bernard always says the Germans are a mite tight, to do a bang up job on stag.

Bill

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:13 am

Well, I try to offer experienced opinions, my strength is the third through fifth generations and others are more experienced with the first and second generations though I have learned a lot not only here but through emails from many friends. I guess I would be considered above average on the first 2 generations, but certainly there are folks that know far more than I.

As Bulldog a collector, it concerns me that on any given day, I can usually find a Bulldog knife on ebay that is misrepresented or completely wrong. Currently there are a bunch of knives being offered as Barlows, when in fact they are Bullet Trappers.

I feel that these misrepresentations really hurt prices and I just like to show the difference. I think as Bulldog collectors, it is really disconcerning to see knives being misrepresented or given the "wrong label" due to lack of information. So, I guess at this point we can only offer the opinions of the experienced.

olderdogs1 · Post by **olderdogs1** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 10:47 pm

I think it would be a good idea for anyone that is reading this post and comparing stag handles to differentiate old 1st generation from the newer stag on bulldogs to go Hukk's post in the General Knife Discussion on Bulldog 1st generation sowbellies. It is much easier to tell when they are side by side as they are in that post.

Olderdogs1