Camillus Displays

[Gr8Scout]

Ok, third time I have started a Camillus display thread, but I recently was sent some factory info that will help identify when these things were made and the knives they contained.

I have one of these CAMCO model 56-12 displays, and I know one other of you guys do. We both wondered what the original color was... Mine is an ugly blue, your's is red-white-blue. According to the info I have, the original color was forest green.

The knives contained are shown on the attached illustrations. As for the time these displays were used (fact is, they might still be used in some old hardware, somewhere) so perhaps a better way of putting that would be when these were issued by the factory... is mid 1950s.

I'll try and post a new display illustration every couple of days.
If the photos are not large enough for an interested party to make out everything, PM me your email address and I will forward a copy to you.


Phil

[Case V42]

Gr8,

I'm the fella with the red & white display case, but mine is marked Camillus instead of CAMCO. Here's a quick photo of mine.

Thanks for the additional information.

CaseV42

[Gr8Scout]

Ok, here is my Camco. I think we can probably deduce the two were issued around the same time. After I repaint this, I might just stick a bunch of my Yello-Jakets in it.

Please note: All information/illustrations I will be posting here is from CAMCO, a new member, whose name is Tom Williams. He is the former company historian of Camillus Cutlery, and I don;t think he would mind if I told you he was the 3rd generation of his family to work at the cutlery.

How about a big thanks to Tom? An invaluable addition to our forum.

Phil

[jonet143]

great stuff phil, and welcome tom. you'll find a lot of interested knifers here. looking forward into your inside stories.

[El Lobo]

Very cool stuff guys.

Welcome Tom, don't be a stranger, as we value your knowledge.

Bill

[LRV]

Welcome Tom,

Glad to have another historian on board. Please stick around we need all the help we can get.
Thanks
Larry.

[BrokenCamillus]

Welcome Tom,

I hope you will enjoy this site. I know I have questions enough to keep you busy, but I'll wait until you are formally on board.

[Gr8Scout]

I found the term 'Display Card' in some of this literature, which is a good definition of the very inexpensive, 'throw away' displays (also called 'Merchandisers') supplied by Camillus back in the day. Fragile, made to be tossed in the trash when empty of knives, I'll call these 'rare collectibles', but seldom valuable, unless in mint condition, filled with the original knives.

Here is the 'Swiss Army' model 661 camper type knife display card. A big retail price of $1.59 each, 12 knives to a card.

And: The "Vanguard", a 'space age' mechandiser featuring 8 different models factory mounted on replaceable carrier cards. Neat feature.

Finally: A page featuring two different cardboard merchandisers, one for the fishing knife: Number 7-11A, the other for 'American's Favorites' model 692. Note both of these are Camco branded.

Anybody have any of these? More in a couple of days

Phil

[CAMCO]

Thank you to everyone for the warm welcome.

I will be sending older information to Gr8Scout to post on this website. If there are any knives or displays that we have not covered let me know. I have access to the records at Camillus that date back to the early 1900's. While working at Camillus I created files for many of the more popular knives.

Tom Williams

[orvet]

Welcome Tom
I do hope you will be around a lot and share your insights with us. It is great to have you on board.

Dale

[Gr8Scout]

Welcome Tom!

Here is a nice one on ebay, be interesting to see if anyone buys it. I would be happy with just one of those old 'Riders' knives in excellent condition. I think I'll keep on eye on ebay.

Phil

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... &rd=1&rd=1[/url]

[CAMCO]

Camillus has the same display in the conference room. I believe it was given to Camillus by Kevin Pipes of Smoky Mountain Knife Works.

Tom Williams

[lt632ret]

Considering the relationship between Schrade and Camillus it is great to have a hands on knowlegable source willing to share that knowledge. I personally am very appreciative of any input you might be willing to share . I have a lot of the paper work regarding MFG that was done between these firms however i have chosen not to really broach the subject. I have a lot of respect for all the people who were involved and really did not want to delve into a subject which I might not have had enough understanding to represent correctly. The previous tenuous state of Camillus is not one I wanted inadvertently to affect. I am just glad they are still with us and appreciate any of the history you might wish to impart. Thankyou LT

[Gr8Scout]

LT, of course we look forward to stuff from you, thanks. This forum gets better with every new member we get. Question askers, Question answerers, learners and teachers all welcome.

I've improved how I scan and copy the material Tom sent to me. Here is some more. The Camillus brand rated, because of the knives cost, a more expensive display, hence the nice 'Merchandizers' we see made of wood, glass, plexiglass. Camco, the economy brand, relied more on display cards. I'm old enough to recall that you would find the merchandisers with the nice hunting knives in sporting goods stores and gun shops. The Camco display cards could be there, but it seems imprinted in my mind that those were found more often in little baitshops, mom and pop party stores, near the cash register at tourist traps... We have all seen both Imperial and Camco knives, old ones, with silk screened or otherwise printed on the handles, the names of such places. How many people made it back from Canada without a knife bearing the likeness of a Royal Canadian Mountie?

So today, I bring you some nice Camillus displays. And some inexpensive Camco display cards.

Phil

[orvet]

Thanks for posting those Phil & thanks for sharing Tom

It is cool to see how some of the knives I have might have been displayed originally.

Thanks,
Dale

[CAMCO]

Camillus made many knives for Imperial/Schrade and while I/S was in business I was not permitted to discuss the subject. Albert Baer frequently visited the Camillus factory and the Camillus employees were told to never mention it. Now things have changed.

Tom Williams

[orvet]

Thank you Tom.
It is nice to have confirmation of things suspected or rumored to be true, even commonly accepted to be fact, but never verified.

An excellent example of that is the Frontier line of I/S. I have heard they were made by Camillus. That is accepted as fact by most collectors I know, (myself included), but I have never talked to anyone associated with Camillus who could confirm that. Can you confirm that?

I appreciate your contributions to the forum.

Thank you,
Dale

[CAMCO]

Dale,
Before I confirm that Camillus made the Frontier line I will have to check the records. Camillus made millions of knives for other knife companies and I don't recall all of them.

I do recall the All American line made for Imperial. They were models #AA31, #AA41 and #AA51 that were a low priced line with zinc bolsters that were intended to compete with imported knives.

Tom Williams

[orvet]

Tom,
I have a couple of the AA series.
I didn't not know that Camillus made those. Thanks for the info.

I will await you reply on the others. Let me know if a pic of one would help your search.

Thanks again,
Dale

[upnorth]

Hello camco, and welcome to knife lore! It's great to have someone here who's been in the trenches! I hope you enjoy answering questions, because I think a lot of the people here are obsessively inquisitive (unlike myself!!)!

Do you know where Lemoyne College is? (my alma mater!) I spent four years in the Syracuse area, admittedly trying to collect girls instead of knives, while going to school there. I'm a lot more successful with knives!!
Can you tell me if Camillus made knives for Case?? I've often wondered who made their scout and barlow knives among other patterns. They don't always look like Case products.
Thanks in advance!

Nice meeting you,
Charlie

[lt632ret]

Direct from original files. I am not into statistics but I do get requests and always there is the question of who made what and how much so this year 1987 just happened to come up in a file. I thought it exemplified the relationship. I have come across it before but have now decided to post it for those ( if any) with an interest and have wondered about production figures and similar facts and figures. LT

[lt632ret]

Here are the rest for 1987.

[BrokenCamillus]

I'm looking at all this data, and I'm wondering... If all of these knives were made and yet the company was forced out of business by cheap imports, where did all of these knives go?

Did they somehow get gathered up and sold at auction?

Did people eventually buy them?

It seems as though the business model that brought us the cardboard display, which I do remember sitting on the selves at stores long since gone from my town, is so outdated we need to do something different. But then, what sold all of those knives after the turning point?

Is Camillus watching what's happening on eBay right now with U.S. made Schrades while the "NEW" Schrade alternative can barely be given away? What would happen if Camillus cut out the middle men, and sold direct? At least long enough to get back on their feet.

[lt632ret]

What happened at Schrade was a dark and convoluted situation which I have told over and over only to be met with denials by many of those who did not know what happened or simply have by personal agenda or misunderstanding have chosen to deny what really happened. You are correct if they were selling that many knives what happened? Schrade if I recall owed around 10 million dollars of which they had that much in orders. The ten million was due to expansion new machinery ( for markets like Walmart.) Also they were entering into having parts contracted elsewhere and assembled here. The tough tool was a prime example. Foreign markets were not gaining on Schrade . Schrade was playing the game and beating them. So what happened a giant bank ( with many foreign backers ) bought up the the smaller local bank Schrade had always dealt with and almost immediately called in the loan. No matter all Schrade had to do was send and collect for what they had already sold and had material for and then get paid. The bank closed on Schrade well ( you might say) what bank would lose millions by liquidating a firm that owed them 10 mill and getting back maybe half of that. The answer is a bank that did not care but whos only design was to get rid of the firm and gain a market that they had been out played in.

Now here is the good part that our insidious red commie pals in commerce figured out. They or the bank not only gained the market but by using front dupes like Smokey Mountain managed at auction to buy for pennies all of the assets. It was set up that way at the auction I was there. lot #4 was work in progress. The amount of stock this included was monsterous you could have filled a gymnasium like a can of sardines. With what was in that one lot . Why wasent it broken up and sold in smaller lots well you see by selling it in one lot very few buyers could move or store it only an out fit like blue ridge or Smokey could buy it because it would have cost a fortune to move it or store it . I cannot begin to tell you how much was in that lot but Blue Ridge and Smokey are still selling it. That lot went for 35,000 yes thirtyfive thousand dollars. It was probably 3.5 million dollars worth of stuff. Most of it was then sold to the Chinese or given to them to assemble. ( Save those certificates of authenticity smokey is giving out ). Lot 4 was so large that after 9 tractor trailers of stuff they told Schrade that they didnt want any more Schrade then sent a few more semi truck loads. Not bad for 35 grand.

I have already mentioned that when Smokey bought the Schrade collection it was with the priviso that it would stay together in a museum. I did not offer to buy it because as I stated then I would have tried to keep as much together as I could but would have had to sell some of it. Hell they just took off and started selling all.

Right after the closing I wrote and rewrote articles to explain this scenario. I was told how wrong I was (usually by those with an agenda) and China did not care about Schrade or this market had no part in the bank ect. Last year a federal congressional committee headed by Sen C Shumer NY went to China to create possible tariffs due to banking practises Red China was employing . (The Schrade closing was one of the Companies that inspired this investigation) A few nights ago on the Smoky Mountain knife show they had there good buddy from China who sells Rough Riders he couldn't speak english real well but I bet he knows how to make a knife that cuts a round eyed american throat. Everytime you buy one you cut all our throats. Sometimes I forget that the Red Chinese are our friends and have vowed to destroy the USA. Sometimes a twinge from a through and through in my right thigh reminds me . It makes me wonder if the bullets most of my friends were killed with came off those same machines now refurbished to make knives for american markets from reprocessed american Schrade steel.

OK now that I have attained the status of totally off the wall conspiracy theorist. I might as well finish my obviously mad dissertation. Schumer and his congressional committee after making a big deal of straightening out China fiscal practises ( newspaper headlines ect ). Well after that big splash to quell people who were complaining ( because Schrade was not the only chip that fell ) nothing was heard again Chucky got a ride to China the hue and cry died down and business as usual . I live in NY and truthfully expected nothing else. Hillary is Chuckys buddy and the other Senator from NY she has the same seat Robert Kennedy had when he needed a place to carpetbag until he was going to run for president. The seat was bought and paid for by the rich liberals who use that senatorial seat a personal special reward ( in Hillarys case if any one still remembers Bill gave out a bunch of pardons just before leaving office )strangely many of those people were quite influential regarding this seat. Hillary just officially threw her hat in the presidential ring. ( What a surprise ). I still remember hubby Bill laughing when he was responding to American secrets being stolen by the Red Chinese he did not feel it was very important. Aside from backing the National Purple Heart Museum ( which I feel was done for personal propaganda this senator has done absolutley nothing for this state.except establish residency collect her pay and wait to be president. )

So far in this insane diatribe every thing I said would happen regarding Schrade when it closed has happened. even to a bullshit senatorial committee to quiet the other insane peoples such as myself. Everything I have described as having happened regarding the auction and Schrade is certifiable. As I am sure one guy (like myself) screaming about this whole situation would also be considered. None the less you asked a question it is not a answer that can be given in a line or two. I have broached this and fully realize that there is nothing one old man can do about these things except to continue to say what he feels is the truth. I do it not because I really care about the future in fact I have always ( being as cynical as I am ) said that it would be great to be alive when the world comes to an end just to see how it all works outs. Like the end of a movie . Or just to be here to turn out the lights. None the less I love this country and even more than that I have an obligation to all those who have given some and those who have given all, and even at this moment somewhere are dieing for my and your rights. So I will be damned if I will go quietly into the night. Or give those freedoms away you will have to take mine away from me.

This is not a political oration it is just an answer to a question that unfortunately is many faceted and not easily answered. Be assured when there is nothing else to gain by guile or trickery Red China will be strong enough to do whatever they want by more conventional means. Did you read the paper 2 days ago it seems the Red Chinese blew one of there satellites out of space with a missle. They had guaranteed us that they were not going to do that type of testing. If they could hit a satellite do you think they could hit a major american city. They won't need airplanes. I guess they like North Korea ( nuclear testing) have promised not to do it again.

Just as a final note the Mayan calendar ends in Dec of 2011. I wonder who will be in office. LT PS Sorry this answer is probably a lot more than you wanted Schrade and its people were near and dear to me. Truthfully I hope not to broach the subject again. I also appreciate and respect any anyones opinion whether they agree or not.

Oh just one more thing the New Gov Spitzer of NYS has said that if Hillary becomes president his front runner choice for her senatorial seat ( to finish out her term is Robert Kennedy JR. Oh yes and our new attorney general ( which was Spitzers old job and another stepping stone) is named Cuomo ( son of Mario the ex governor ). I LOVE NY . Its a family state.

[Grizzly_Dog]

Nice piece of history LT , and the small interjection of personal opinion( which I woud have to agree with most all of it) is no interuption. How about a little more info on the scavenging of the factory, you were there so you know exactly what happened. How did they decide lots? what was your opinion on the rarest lot(hope fully not lot#4) and did you bid on any lots?
P.S. If you good folks in New York need a good hole in the ground for a "political donation" I'll bring my shovel and help dig you one !!Thanks
___
Jim