File & Wire Series

[BCM]

I have a Shatt & Morgan File & Wire 04111L Swing Guard lockback. It has the long pull and F&W Scroll on the blade, with carmel colored worm groove handles, SXM Trade Mark Bowtie Shield, etc. However, it does not say ATS 34 on the blade anywhere? Can anyone date this knife? It was purchased through SMKW in the late 1990s...

Thank!

[boggs]

Kinda like these.....Series 1...second of six patterns offered in 1991 and manufactured in two different steels...ATS 34 and Queen Steel ( closest to a 420 )

[BCM]

Thank you, "boggs"

Mine appears as the lower knife. Though, according to the Resier/S&M website, this knive also had ATS34 steel used for the blade (????????????)

BCM

[boggs]

Yep...that's why I mentioned that it was offered in two different blade steels ats 34 and 420 ( Queen Steel ) and only those knives marked with the ATS 34 logo are indeed ATS...wasn't the first time that S&M File and Wire knives had different steels.

[justold52]

boggs Super thanks for the lesson.

Please come back to AAPK so I can learn more. Your a good teacher that I can understand by show and tell....

[BCM]

boggs

Just so I have this straight: If it doesn't have ATS34 on the blade somewhere, then it's not ATS34?

The only reason I question is that according to the afore mentioned S&M site, only the first edition of the series (a folding hunter of some sort, I believe) was made with the normal Queen Steel. The remainder of the series, including edition #2 in question, were made with ATS34...

Personally, I haven't a clue... We were buying knives from Jim Parker, SMKW, and ShepHerd Hills in the early 1990s. I really don't remember from which we acquired this knive. I'm just tring to "catalog" my collection and record what history I can about each knife. I really appreciate all the help!

BCM

[boggs]

I know how it is so I went through some reference material to find something in writing for you.. and to answer the other part of your question yes ATS 34 would need to be on the blade in the F&W Series

American Pocketknives: A history of Schatt & Morgan and Queen Cutlery
by
David A. Krauss Ph.D.

[BCM]

boggs,

Didn't doubt what you were saying - was just confused by what seemed to be conflicting information. My F&W Tested knife is not ATS34 steel. It is a beauty, though! I'd rate it right up there with my 1970 10 DOT Red Jigged Bone WR Case Cheetah!

Thanks for your help and patience!


BCM

[boggs]

No doubt my friend..sometimes a little extra helps scratch that nagging itch...you know the one .."I'm not quite sure" kind.

Anytime......

[BCM]

boggs,

Here's an "update":

Today (2/23) I had occasion to call Queen Cutlery about another Queen pocket knife that I have, and while I was on the phone (w/the production manager in Titusville - Jenny Moore) we talked about the Schatt & Morgan knives as well. Per Queen/Schatt & Morgan, all their File & Wire tested knives have always been produced with ATS34 Stainless, whether it says ATS34 on the blade, or not. With the possible exception of the first knife (the Folding Hunter) of the series.

The blade markings, shield, and handle scales on my knife indicate that it was produced in 1999.

She was very informative about Queen knives and Shatt & Morgan both!

So, the saga continues...

BCM

[knowtracks]

The latest release in Series V, the 4th edition is a large single blade fiddle back/ coke bottle/ folding hunter. She is another large knife at 5 1/8" closed and 9 3/8" OAL. I'm hoping that with Series VI, Queen will start producing some smaller more pocket friendly patterns. Same deal as the other knives in Series V, Morning ash wormgroove bone scales & ATS-34 blade steel.

Dave

[zed6309]

These are all amazing guys, more i want now

[justold52]

Well you pointed out one thing I do not like. The names for a pattern. "a large single blade fiddle back/ coke bottle/ folding hunter." Why can't they and we all call it by one name?

Ken

[knowtracks]

Been awhile since any activity on this thread, soooo here is the 5th & last edition of the 5th Series.
A 2 blade Trapper on a Sowbelly frame. Much smaller that the last knife at 3 3/4" closed, this knife is much more pocket friendly. Same steel & bone as the other knives in this Series.

Now I wonder what handle material will be in Series 6. Sure hope they stay with more user-friendly patterns.

Dave

[justold52]

I think I have it right now.

S&M Cotton Sampler V ATS 34 Steel Worm Groove 2009 4 3/16"

S&M Cotton Sampler Stag #4-4 ATS 34 Steel 1995 4"

S&M Cotton Worm Grooved Moss Green 4162C 2009 4 ¼

All 3 of them are ATS 34 steel but different length's ?

Ken

[knowtracks]

The stag cotton sampler was from the 5th annual reproduction series Ken. In 1995 it was not ATS-34 but 420HC. The only ATS-34 Cotton Sampler that I am aware of is the File & Wire that you have posted in your top pic.

Dave

[justold52]

GR8 thanks very much. I am getting them fixed in my Dandy Knife Store now.

420HC stainless steel Is what I have for this S&M Cotton Sampler 4162C Harvest Orange 2009 4" Looks like I am wrong again??

Should be ATS-34 stainless steel correct.!!!!

Ken