Info needed on Case pattern numbers

Nihonto · Post by **Nihonto** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:14 am

Hi all,
I am a new member to this site and this is my first post. I am trying to put a date on a Case trapper that I picked up at a pawn shop for 15 bucks.
First question; When did case start putting pattern numbers on blades?
Second question; When did the trapper first come on the market?

This trapper has what appears to be (there is some pitting and the ase part of the mark is hard to make out under a loupe) the long tail swoosh C with ase in cursive mark on the master blade. From what I have found in books this mark was 1920 to 1940.
This knife also has pattern number 3254 on the spey blade. Did Case put pattern numbers on blades during the 1920 to 1940 time frame?
I tried to taked pics of the knife and marking but wow is it difficult to get good pics that show up. I will keep working on it.
Any help will be much appreciated.

sunburst · Post by **sunburst** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:23 am

Hello and Welcome to the site..

I am not a Case man but if you look at the information that is listed in this link it might answer your question..

http://allaboutpocketknives.com/wr_case/index.php

Take care,

Sunburst

Nihonto · Post by **Nihonto** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:34 am

Thanks Sunburst,
Before i posted I read thru that info on the site. I have the the mark located on that page and have deciphered the pattern number..3 yellow composite , 2 two blades , 54 trapper pattern number. However I can not find when Case began adding pattern numbers to the blades or when this trapper pattern first came out.
Thanks again,
Nihonto

sunburst · Post by **sunburst** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:43 am

Ok then you already did your homework..

If that's the case (no pun intended) just wait a little while and some really gifted Case folks will answer your question..

Good luck in your search,

Sunburst

jonet143 · Post by **jonet143** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 7:36 pm

does the tang stamp match any of those shown in the research area?

stockman · Post by **stockman** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:10 pm

Hello case did not make a trapper until the tested era time that you stated your knife is. Also very few knives in this era has a pattern # . Pictures would be nice. Hope this helps some.

Stockman

Nihonto · Post by **Nihonto** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:40 pm

Thanks for the help..
The tang stamp appears to be the one on the left in the 1920 - 1940 tested era. However there is pitting on the stamp and even under a loupe the ase part of the mark is really just not that legible.
The pattern number, 3254, is on the front of the spey blade on the tang.
I am going to try to make a light box and see if I can get some pics of the knife to post this evening.
The blades are dark and well used. The yellow comp handles are in good shape with only one small tight crack from a rivet to tthe edge of the scale.

jonet143 · Post by **jonet143** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 11:29 pm

it sounds like you got a real good deal at $15. pics would be great.

Blade Runner · Post by **Blade Runner** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:48 am

The Tested era trapper was prduced first(c 1920- 1940). If your trapper bears a pattern number I'd bet the grocery money its not from the tested era. The pattern number seems to have started at some time during the production of the first model XX frame(probably somewhere around 1950 give or take). The dotted dating system began in 1970. And since your pattern number is on the spey blade I'd say post 1970. If its a long tail "C" with the flowing tail it was made in the 1990's. Most yellow handled trappers had carbon blades and often look older than they are But to tell for sure I need to see a picture. I am working on the assumption your knife has all the original parts and is authentic
Gary

Nihonto · Post by **Nihonto** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:04 am

Ok I have taken some pics that I believe will show you guys what you need to see. I definitely dont see a USA or any dots under the tang stamp which I would think would be there on a 1990s knife. However it is pitted in that area.
Well anyway I hope these pics help, and once again thanks for all the help.
Nihonto

muskrat man · Post by **muskrat man** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:08 am

thats a 1990's production yellow delrin trapper. From what I can tell 1996 atthe earliest. Clean it up and you have a good user- past that; worth what you paid for it, not a penny more IMO.

Nihonto · Post by **Nihonto** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:33 am

Thanks Muskrat,
Can you tell me what the giveaway is? Wouldnt i expect to see USA and the dating system under the mark?
I am just learning about folders really and need all the help I can get.
Nihonto

muskrat man · Post by **muskrat man** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:18 am

Hi, the dots are there, just pitted away. the main giveaway is the stamp altogether, compare it to this one (a "tested" era knife) and it's different in every aspect. Hope this helps

P.S The real "tested" era knives had "tested XX" below the longtail Case. Someone please correct me if I am mistaken.
PPS did I mention welcome aboard?

I am far from an expert, just trying to contribute what little knowledge I do have

Blade Runner · Post by **Blade Runner** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:38 pm

No problem muskratman, help yuorself
Gary

Nihonto · Post by **Nihonto** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:35 pm

The stamp I see on my knife appears to me to be the first one in the 1920-1940 section under the research link on this page. In that section it shows three stamps for the tested era...two of which have tested xx as part of them. Those two also have the straight tail C. The first one has the swoosh tail C and no tested xx as part of the stamp. Also the stamp for the 90's era with the swoosh tail has USA under it and dots for the dating system. My knife does not appear to have USA or the dots. I could see the pitting obscuring the dots but I would think I would see USA or at least traces of it.
Also thanks for the welcome. I am very happy to be part of this forum and hope that I can share some knowledge with you as well as gain some from you. My real specialty in collecting has been Japanese swords for the past ten years or so, hence my nickname nihonto. Nihon=Japan to=sword.
So if anyone out there has some Japanese stuff they need some info on I will do my best to help.
Thanks again,
Nihonto...Dave

jonet143 · Post by **jonet143** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:57 pm

some of the knives produced like yours had no dots or usa. your knife is a 90s knife. the case shield is a 90s shield. the handle material would have been more of a creme color in the tested era not yellow. also notice the tang stamp you refer to slants up while yours does not.

Blade Runner · Post by **Blade Runner** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:13 pm

Hello again Dave, I know you want to believe you have stumbled upon a rare tested era trapper, but the truth is it just isn't so. The stamp you seen in the research area is not the same as yours. I have been collecting vintage Case Trappers for quite a spell, and can tell you your knife is from the 1990's. It is obvious that only seeing the real thing is the only thing that will convince you. I don't have one with yellow handles, but can tell you an authentic tested trapper would have yellow celluloid and not delrin. I am going to post the real thing from my collection in Rogers bone. Compare the many differnces, such as shields, blade shapes, bone hafting, etc. If you want a tested trapper your gonna have to come up with alot more jack than 15 dollars. Anyway they say a picture is worth a thousand words so here goes
Gary

jonet143 · Post by **jonet143** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:24 pm

gary, i will give you double his money for that old cutter!

Blade Runner · Post by **Blade Runner** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:37 pm

LOL. I'll keep that in mind if I ever decide to part with it Johnnie.
Gary

Nihonto · Post by **Nihonto** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:34 pm

I knew that someone would mistake the fact that I want to learn reasons why its a 90's era trapper and think that I am trying to argue that it is a tested era trapper. I believe it is a 90's era trapper as most of you here have much more knowledge than I do about these folders. I just dont want to have someone give me an answer and not learn the reasons why.
Bladerunner, that is a fabulous looking trapper, now it brings more questions to mind, so here they go...
1. What makes it Rodgers bone, is it the jigging pattern? They are beautiful scales for sure.
2. The other difference I notice is the short bolster on your knife compared to the bolster on mine.
3. The bottom center rivet on my knife is brass and the ones on either end appear just to be rusted steel. Your knife appears to have nickle silver rivets, or at least they are all the same material.
Are these things indicative of tested era trappers only? Are there trappers from say the 70s or 80s that look like yours only tang stamp is different?
I hope nobody thinks I'm beating a dead horse here, I realise my knife is not tested era, I just want to learn all I can so I dont buy anymore worn out 90s era trappers. Actually I wouldnt have bought this one except for the fact that I figured for 15 bucks I couldnt get hurt too bad!
Thanks again,
Nihonto Dave

Blade Runner · Post by **Blade Runner** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:09 am

Well it seems to me you went the long way around the barn, if you wanted information all you had to do was ask. Anyway like you said early rogers bone is recognized by the jigging pattern you see in the photo. Tested Trappers can also be had in Green bone, Winterbottom bone, stag, red stag, red second cut, yellow comp, and cracked ice. Tested Trappers can be had with tested shields and XX shields. You are right about the short bolsters on Tested Trappers, they got longer with time. The frames and blades evolved over time and slight nuances exist. I will post a few images for you to see. To keep me from staying up all night I want to refer you to an article I wrote in the November 2005 issue of Knife World titled "Case's Pre-Dotted 54 Pattern" that covers what you are wanting to know. The beginning of this article is posted here on this site(go to home page and click on articles) to see the entire article you'll have to contact Knife World and order a back issue they cost 4 dollars I think Take Care
Gary

Blade Runner · Post by **Blade Runner** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:19 am

After the tested era ended around 1940 or 45 the XX era picked up and ran till 1964. The XX trapper had 3 different frames, Tested Frame XX, First Model XX, Regular Frame XX. The tested frame was just like tested trapper but had a XX tang stamp. The first model was the one where they started stamping pattern #'s, some had it some didn't

Blade Runner · Post by **Blade Runner** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:23 am

After XX era ended the Case XX USA era began c 1965-1969. Here are 2 in rare second cut stag.

Blade Runner · Post by **Blade Runner** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:36 am

Now here is a 1970 10 dot. You can see how the trapper was evolving. I hope this helps.
Gary

stockman · Post by **stockman** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:43 am

Hello Blade Runner, Your article on the 54 patterns was one of my favorite articles in a very long time. I refer back to it very often when I have trapper questions, thanks for the good work.

Stockman