Walk and Talk and Stop

[KEN]

I just posted this email to Bryan at AAPK and would appricate any comments that the membership might wish to make.

Ken


Bryan

From the Glossary of Knife Terms on the AAPK web site:

"Walk and Talk: This describes the actions of a pocket knife when opened and closed. The walk describes the feel of the tang as it moves along the spring when the blade is opened. The talk refers to the sound of the knife when the blade is closed. A well adjusted knife "walks and talks" (has a nice strong snap and has blades that slide smoothly across the springs). "


Walk, as I read it here, means that the blade will open and close smoothly. And, Talk, is the sound the blade makes when it "snaps" close.


However, many blades come to a full stop at the half way mark when either opening the blade or closing the blade. And, it seems to me, many think this is a desirable trait. I would like some more information on this blade STOP as it relates to the WALK.

Thanks


"Ken"

[philco]

Ken,

That midway stop you are referring to is called a "half stop". It seems to have been more common in many of the older knives that had stronger springs. I'm not sure what function it has other than to give the user a chance to get his fingers out of the way before they become caught under the closing blade. That half stop is created by making a flat area on the end of the tang so that it "catches" as the tang rotates across the backspring when opening or closing the blade. I personally like the feature and feel that it is one indicator of a higher quality knife.

Phil

[Paladin]

I can't help but wonder why you addressed that in an email to Bryan.
Is there some underlying meaning, or perhaps an inside story??

Ray

[KEN]

Ray

In the Glossary of Knife Terms located on this Web Site, Bryan suggests that if you don't find a term listed to write him and he gives his email address. I couldn't find anything related to "half stops" so I wrote him as he requested. See below:

"Welcome To Our Glossary Of Knife Terms
Our mission in creating this glossary is to provide you with definitions and illustrations for knife related terms. If you can not find a particular term that you are looking for, please let us know by sending an e-mail to [email protected]. We will try to add the information as soon as possible"

Ken

[Paladin]

Aha! "I see" says the blind man!
I had no clue, thanks.

Ray

[gmusic]

The half stop is just part of the walk on the way to the talk........................

The "walk" is a simple short reference to the smoothness of the action (half stop or not.)

The "talk" is the sound of the blade snap in full open or closed.

What is the question again Ken?

My oversight........................you are correct.................there is no reference to "Half Stop" on the knife terms page. Perhaps Bryan will add it.

[Joe Dirt]

I guess "Half Stop" needs to be added to the Glossary!

In addition to Phil's theory, I think it was a necessary revision to the tang,
allowing the blade to be opened without using a pair of pliers or more practically
was incorporated to prevent total failure of the spring. If the relief was not there,
the spring would have to flex the total distance of the end of the tang.

The vintage knives had a lot of spring pressure FOR SURE!!

......... Joe

[gmusic]

The half stop also allows the blade to remain open without fatiguing pressure on the spring.

[DR_MAGOO]

The half stop also allows the blade to remain open without fatiguing pressure on the spring.

Also, allows for repositioning of fingers, If you know what I mean.
i.e. saves band aids

[tortelvis]

is it bad for the springs to display my knives with no half stops in the open position? i was told dont worry about it.

[big monk]

If displayed with the blade"'Fully, Open"" and not "'Partially, Opened"" I would not see,where it would hurt___the folders,are designed to be used,while fully open________a partial open knife,puts strain, on the back springs,therefore will weaken the springs_____now,for the guys,that know a lot more than I, to tell ya' the rest of the story

[gmusic]

Displaying knife blades half way open without the "half stop" feature keeps the spring under constant pressure. Will it damage the spring, that's hard to say...............some will and some won't I guess would apply here. I don't take the chance myself.

[singin46]

is it bad for the springs to display my knives with no half stops in the open position? i was told dont worry about it.

I think it wise to air on the side of caution here, I don't do it, just to be safe.

[orvet]

I like to be cautious and I either display them closed or fully opened.

BTW, if you have any switch blades the spring is fully loaded when the knife is closed.
Most people probably don't realize that and store them closed.
That is probably so many of the old ones have broken springs.
I store mine full open so the spring is under no tension.

[The Tourist]

BTW, if you have any switch blades the spring is fully loaded when the knife is closed. Most people probably don't realize that and store them closed. That is probably so many of the old ones have broken springs. I store mine full open so the spring is under no tension.

I agree, to a point. To me and other collectors of "leaf spring" switchblades, the entire process of firing a stiletto is what makes it "walk and talk." A leaf spring automatic makes a sound distinctly different from a coil-drive. In many cases a purist prefers a leaf spring.

It is true that leaf spring knives should be stored in the open position. Since a coil drive mechanism is usually "cocked" when closed at about 65% of its total load, you can store that kind of knife in the closed postion and never worry. Even if the coil breaks, you can buy a replacement spring for about 9 bucks and repair it yourself. I get my springs from PVK.

The exception is the Mikov. I often store them closed. My wife always stores hers closed. It fires like it was made yesterday. And if the leaf spring breaks or gets tired--a condition I have never seen--you can replace the springs with your bare hands. In fact, the Mikov is my preferred auto. And if you can imagine your "perfect auto," you'll find that Mikov already builds it.

(I do not rep for Mikov, I just like the knives.)

[gmusic]

I had never thought of that Dale! I only have one auto but good point, I'm going in to open her up right now.

[tortelvis]

it makes sense why keeping knives with no half stops,partially open to display the blades,would put strain on and weaken the springs. what do you guys think of all the commemorative knives in the collectors boxes ,that display them that way ? they look cool but i guess the springs are taking a beating?

[orvet]

it makes sense why keeping knives with no half stops,partially open to display the blades,would put strain on and weaken the springs. what do you guys think of all the commemorative knives in the collectors boxes ,that display them that way ? they look cool but i guess the springs are taking a beating?

I don't display them half open. I have some Schrades that are displayed in the half open position within the plastic clam pack. I open the clam pact and close the knife, unless there is a reason to keep them at half open. Sometimes they are more valuable sealed, but anyone who buys one sealed then opens it to discover the spring is weak has no reason to blame the seller, (IMHO).

[tortelvis]

i have the case johnny cash, and john wayne etc.etc. knives. so i should just close the knives i guess. they wont even fit nice in the collectors boxes in the closed position. i will have to put them in a different box.

[jerryd6818]

I used to subscribe to the theory of "weakened springs", although that was in regards to the springs in the magazines for firearms and not knife back springs. When something is pounded into you over a number of years, you have trouble letting it go but I've done a bit of reading on the subject and no longer believe in the "weakened spring" theory.

The following is one paragraph in a much longer article about the springs in firearm magazines but I don't think it's a leap of faith to apply what's said in the article to the back springs of knives.

"To put this one to rest, you have to understand creep. Creep is the slow flow of a non-ferric metal like copper, brass and lead under force. At temperatures outside of a furnace, steel doesn't have any appreciable creep. Under most conditions, steel flexes and then returns to its original shape. When pushed past its elastic limit, steel will bend and not return to its original shape. All designers of well-made magazines make sure the spring never approaches the elastic limit when the magazine is fully loaded. Honest. This means the spring will not weaken when the magazine is fully loaded -- not even over an extended time. Like 50 years. American Handgunner recently ran a story about a magazine full of .45 ACP that had been sitting since WWII and it ran just fine on the first try. So there you go."


The entire article is several pages long. To read the whole thing, go here: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... i_99130369

I think the failures of knife back springs are due to poor or no maintenance, poor engineering, improper heat treating and/or poor design (which in some cases is the same as poor engineering).

That's my . Take it for what it's worth.

[Aimus Moses]

Jerry, I have to respectfully disagree. I've changed too many magazine springs in name brand firearms because they became weak and lead to a malfunction. From magazine springs in a semi auto pistol, to tube magazine springs in semi auto and pump action shotguns. Over the coarse of time of being worked a spring will lose some of it's strength, not all of it but most times enough to cause a problem. The worst thing to do with magazine springs is leave the magazine fully loaded and let it be exposed to temp. change from hot to cold and vice versa. I keep my magazines in a safe with my firearms, up stairs at my house. During the day in the summer it may get 90 to close to 100 degrees up there. During the night the temp. up stairs drops to 65 to 70 degrees when we go to bed. That has an impact on the springs of a magazine when it's under a constant load. Another example is the recoil springs in automatic pistols. After it's been work used long enough, it will eventually weaken to a point that it effects the cycle action of the pistol, causing jams then finally failing to eject. I've changed many of those before, also on very good brand named pistols. I have also seen them break after a lot of work use. On average, I change more weak springs than broken ones though. I have a spring poundage guage that is used just for the purpose of telling me the exact poundage a spring has. Any given semi auto pistol of a certain caliber requires a certain poundage spring for it to operate correctly. A spring is a spring, regardless of if it's a coil or flat spring it's function and purpose is the same. When I drove a dump truck for a living, one rule was not to ever leave the truck loaded for long periods of time, like parked over night. It will weaken the springs. The same thing happens with large truck springs that happens with springs in semi auto pistols, after a lot of work use they will weaken and/or break. I don't even want to count the times I've had to take off a weak or broken set and put on a new stack of springs under that truck I drove. It was a real pain to do so and I only got paid a % of the delivered load, not for being broke down. If springs didn't weaken or break, they wouldn't make replacements for them. They would last forever. I'd really have to see a magazine that has set for 50 years fully loaded and work correctly. Those guys that write those articles do it to sale (reading) magazines and books or to premote a product that belongs to their sponser, not to sale or repair springs and parts.

Aimus

[jerryd6818]

Ain't no thing Aimus. I'm not one to get my undies in a bunch because someone disagrees with me.

[Joe Dirt]

O.K. here's one for ya: How do you store an OTF?

One springs loaded when the other is not and vice-versa!

....... Joe

[orvet]

I guess that is why I don't have OTF.
I would lay awake at night worrying about that very thing.