Documentable Historic Knives

[ole_muddy]

http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/kni ... =4&t=19801

I got started on this with the thread posted above. Since I felt that a knife of this nature really belonged in the "Knife Lore" section of this forum, I am continuing it here.

This knife belongs to a friend of mine and I bought it for him a number of years ago on ebay, in '02 or '03. It is an ivory handled Southern & Richardson Sheffield, 3 1/2", that has a folk art scrimshaw on it. My friend had no problem finding the knife but he had mis-placed the accompanying paperwork he had with the knife so, unfortunately, I'm not able to also post it along with the knife. He was busy today mowing alfalfa (he's a farmer and cropduster) and didn't have that much time to look for the paperwork but he was gracious enough to loan me the knife to start this thread.

The original owner of the knife, Col. Warren S. Reese of the 12th Alabama Cavalry was a noted Confederate cavalry field officer who not only survived the war but later on was the Mayor of Montgomery, AL. I googled "colonel warren reese 12th alabama cavalry civil war" and came up with the link posted below

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=n ... +civil+war

When I bought this knife on ebay (my friend has the printout of the ebay listing, along with the info provided him on the man by the Alabama Dept. of Archives and History, but couldn't find it in his mess of paperwork) it sold for a little over $200 and the seller was from Mobile, AL and stated that he had acquired the knife from an "old Mobile estate".

So, this becomes a situation where "the knife will have to speak for itself". There is around a 135-140 year gap between the Civil War and when my friend became owner of the knife. IS IT A REAL AND LEGITIMATE CIVIL WAR CONFEDERATE ARTIFACT??? My conviction is that YES INDEEDY, IT IS. But, the knife will indeed have to speak for itself, there is no documented chain of ownership prior to the ebay sale and my buddy having it now.

Do any of you other AAPK members have a knife to contribute to this thread? It would sure be welcome. And, of course, please share your thoughts and opinions of this one with all of us.

Thanks, Eric

[Miller Bro's]

In picture #1, can I see a close-up of the tang stamp on the pen blade.

Also, I would like to see a close clear picture of the tang stamp on the master blade.


Thanks

[ole_muddy]

Master blade stamp is pic 2, small blade stamp is pic 4. I can only blow the scan up so far before I start losing resolution. Eric

[Miller Bro's]

What I am interested in seeing is the trademark stamp on the reverse tang of the pen blade

[ole_muddy]

Pics added to opening thread. It is the Southern & Richardson logo for their "Nest" knife that shows a bird nest with eggs in it. I've seen that used as a blade stamping on the face of the main blade on other knives of theirs. Thanks for calling it to my attention. Eric

[Miller Bro's]

That`s what I thought it was.

According to Goins that trademark was not used until 1885.

If that is true the knife was not used or carried during the civil war.

Could the knife have belonged to Warren Stone Reese, yes if he was alive after 1885.

Also, take a good look at the scrim work. The handles of this knife are pocket worn, cracked and show lots of age. Yet, the scrim work is clear without any wear and all the black coloring is intact.

I don`t believe the scrim work is period, if not the knife is a fantasy.

[ole_muddy]

http://www.monumentpreservation.com/mon ... story.html

Google sure makes some of this research easy. Here's one that I picked up from the site in the above link and quoted below:

"By the mid-1880s, Montgomery was booming. It became home to one of the first electric streetcars in the country, and a huge decorative cast iron fountain was built in Court Square at the bottom of Dexter Avenue. An energetic young mayor, a Confederate veteran, Col. Warren Reese, pressed the city into prosperity. Still, fund-raising for the projected $45,000 Confederate Monument went slowly, and construction was stymied by disagreement between the patrons, the artist, and at least one contractor."

Assuming that Goins is correct in the "Nest" knife dating, Col. Reese may have acquired this knife after the war and subsequently scrimmed it after he'd had it a while. I'd think any enterprising fake artist would have used a more well-known Confederate officer such as J.E.B. (James Ewell Brown) Stuart or T.J. (Thomas Jonathan) "Stonewall" Jackson. Myself, I'd never heard of this Col. Reese before I ran into the knife and I would seriously doubt if any other knife collectors have either unless they are also a Civil War collector and historian.

http://books.google.com/books?id=_0oUAA ... &q&f=false

Google also provided the above link. In reading his obituary I saw that he was born on Oct. 12, 1842 and died on Dec. 18,1898. Plenty of time to scrim the knife in his waning years.

Eric

[Owd Wullie]

It will never be known if it is truly authentic or not. It is established that the knife is post Civil War. I'm going to state my opinion based purely on what I can see in the pictures.

Like MB said, the "scrim" looks much newer than the age and wear that is on the knife. Another thing that bothers me about the "scrim" is the style of the script. Educated people in the 19th century had in most instances very nice handwriting. They took their time and made every letter very nice and correct. The script on that knife is neither precise nor formal.

I used to do a lot of frontier re-enacting and saw examples of work that folks did on their gear to make it look authentic to the period. It was common to find a name and and old or new item and make a new item look old and then add the name to it. Most of the time they did this simply to add realism to "campfire BS" sessions. Other unscrupulous folks would try to pass the items off as the "real deal".

Here is a powder horn that I built and "scrimmed" back in the late 80's.

I looked at a lot of old horns and studied the styles and came up with that.

It could easily be passed off as "original period" horn to a less than knowledgeable person.

Like I said, there is no way to prove if Col Reese did or didn't do the work on that knife. It's a neat old knife and I'd be tickled to have it in my pile irregardless of whether or not I knew for sure of it's actual history.

[philco]

It's clear to me brother Wullie, that you are a man of many talents.

What I'm now wondering after viewing the picture above is, "Can he toot his own horn?"





Phil

[Owd Wullie]

It's clear to me brother Wullie, that you are a man of many talents.

What I'm now wondering after viewing the picture above is, "Can he toot his own horn?"





Phil

My wife will tell you I'm VERY adept at it.

[upnorth]

Getting Eric's thread back onto a ummmm . . . .sweeter track, here's a knife with a little knife history that is documented. It's not nearly as old as the Civil War, but here's the story;
Likely made in the 1920s-1930s, it was on one of Case's annual Factory archive boards. The actual year has been lost, but 1930 is close.
When Parker looted the collection at Case, it was sold at the famous auction. The catalog pic is from that auction book. Second knife up in the closeup.
The book is sold as "100Years of Case History" or something like that.
It is the left knife in the group shot with some of its bretheren, with the yellow background. The color of the bone looks washed out in the scan, but it is just the angle of the light. The same knife!!
It is a 62074 1/2 P. A serpentine HJ just about an 1/8" shorter than a 6318, if you know your Case patterns. I think the 074 pattern was dropped, and not produced during or after WWII.
80 to 90 years old for sure!
The story adds some value to me, although I guess it's kind of subjective.

[gringo]

col. warren s reese,formally of the 12th Alabama Cavalry CSA.

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/f ... rson-davis

i agree it is post civil war era...but does fall into the 'trench art' catagory.