Who Made That Knife??

[Miller Bro's]

You see it just about every day. Someone found a knife and they end up on AAPK looking for information on an old knife that was given to them or they bought. Some are easy to identify and some are difficult.

For this thread I am only concerned with old knives, say pre 1960. Many times a knife can be identified by looking at the shield, jigged bone, or unique pattern. Some companies only used these things on knives they produced. This makes things easy to figure out.

I like the harder ones to figure out. Sometimes it takes years to uncover who made a particular knife. If you have an old knife you need identified then post it in this thread. Myself and others here will try to figure out who made it, sometimes the answer will surprise you!

This is real Knife Lore, and what makes the hobby interesting to me.

I will start out with a hard one, I will post in two parts. First, can you tell who made this knife just by looking at the jigged bone handles? The back side is Stag, ever see this before?

[upnorth]

Any clues as to which handle was replaced, Dimitri?
You almost never find two different handle materials on a production knife.
At first glance the jigging looks like Schrade's peachseed, but the longer cut marks suggest early Schatt & Morgan. The slimness of the knife suggest early construction.
Rivets showing - replacements??

[philco]

MB I'm gonna take a WAG and say the knife has one bone slab and one stag slab because it is a salesman's sample knife. Now just who he was selling for I'll let someone else say........

Phil

[Miller Bro's]

Charlie & Phil,

Good detective work you two!

Charlie,

Yes, the handle has been replaced, however I do not know which side.

The knife is of early construction.

I do not know anything about the maker.

Phil, it is not a salesman`s sample.

Now, look at this.
One pen blade is completely unmarked.
One is marked Chas. Langbein N.Y. Back of tang has 3 stars***
The other two blades are marked, hard to make out, but I think they say Lion Cutlery Warranted with the picture of a lion layind down. Back of tang very lightly stamped Germany

If you look closely at the pictures all the blades match up perfectly with their respective backspring.
The patina on the blade and back spring is exactly the same.

I have had this knife for over 20 years and it has not been touched before I got it or during my ownership.

So what is going on here??

You may be surprised at the answer. The answers are not hard to find. I hope someone can figure it out

[upnorth]

C. Lutters & Co, in Germany, for Chas. Langbein, Importer and Wholesaler.
According to LG4 - maybe before 1900?? I think Langbein was in business later than Bernie published in his book though.

[Miller Bro's]

C. Lutters & Co, Goins says 1840-present.

Now what about the unmarked blade, different handle and Langbein stamp, they woud not make a knife for langbein and stamp one blade

Your doin` good Charlie

[Jacknifeben]

here is a CATT that looks alot like yours

[Jacknifeben]

only 2 blades

[Miller Bro's]

JKB,

Same color bone but much different jigging pattern

[philco]

Dimitri,

You're enjoying this way too much!

Phil

[knife7knut]

Interesting that you have a knife marked Langbein with another maker's blade as well.I have a pearl scaled 3 blade that has one blade marked,"I*XL George Wostenholm and another marked,"J.A.Henckels" with the back stamped,"C.Langbein New York".

I wonder if in addition to being an importer,Langbein may have had people assembling and/or repairing knives as well.It is possible that one of these blades was replaced but if so it was done a LONG time ago.Here are some not so good pictures.

[Miller Bro's]

I wonder if in addition to being an importer,Langbein may have had people assembling and/or repairing knives as well.It is possible that one of these blades was replaced but if so it was done a LONG time ago.

Ray,

That is the answer!

It seems Langbein had quite a business in repairing old and new knives with broken blades, handles, etc.

The subject knife of this thread has had one handle and two blades replaced, a long time ago, and as I said the blades match up with the springs exactly. Whoever did it was a master cutler.

This is what many collectors today don`t realize, not all knives that turn up with mis-matched blades are counterfeit. Many were repaired over 90 years ago.

I have several old company letterheads from Cattaraugus, etc. showing where someone sent back a knife to have a blade replaced, or handle. It was common at the time and it still goes on today.

Below is an advertisement from C. Langbein in the 1910 edition of American Cutler Magazine stating the companies specialty in repairing cutlery.

Hope you enjoyed this little history lesson

[knife7knut]

Most assuredly my friend!As my grandfather was fond of saying:"If you don't learn something new each day,you are probably dead!".

Here's one that as far as I can determine had 2 different scales on it from the factory.Too hard to see if there were salesman's marks on the blades.One side is jigged bone and the other jigged black comp.Doubt anyone would go to the trouble to fake an IKCO.

[Miller Bro's]

Same jigging pattern.

Are you sure it is black comp., by the photo you posted in the upper right hand side I can see a brown color. It may be bone but dyed black

[Jacknifeben]

figure this one out.

[knife7knut]

Same jigging pattern.

Are you sure it is black comp., by the photo you posted in the upper right hand side I can see a brown color. It may be bone but dyed black

Nope;it is definitely black composition.I'll see if I can take some better photos outside to show the difference in the morning.

[cattaraugus57]

ok heres one..Probably pre 1960,not sure..
standard size (5 1/8) hunter,no markings left if they were ever there.
The shape of the bolsters don't look like any I have seen,but I'm
not an expert.
anyone?

[Miller Bro's]

Catt,

I have owned several of these in the past.

Blades unmarked, but the exact size frame and handle material, etc. as a Union Cutlery/Ka-Bar.

It is unknown, to me, why the blades were not stamped

[Froggyedge]

Interesting thread!

As my grandfather was fond of saying:"If you don't learn something new each day,you are probably dead!".

I'm not dead, 'cause I'm at the AAPK!

[cattaraugus57]

Miller bro's,both interesting possibilities.
The bolsters on this one are different than a catt,case etc because the large bolster of this one is not as wide and the small bolster is wider.
I have looked at this one inside,outside under different lights etc.
When I first received it,going by the pictures in Goin's I thought I saw the slightest image of some kind of animal??
I don't know maybe I'm imagining it.
Thought maybe it could be identified by the placement and number
of the pins.
Having 6 pins must be kind of unique.

thanks for your input