Pictures of some old factories and buildings...

[orvet]

LT,
You never ease to amaze me!
Is there any American cutlery company pre-1960 that you don't have at least one knife from?

THAT is a GREAT old knife.

Dale

[lt632ret]

1960 is a bit new for the stuff I prefer, althought for the area of study I enjoy I do have quite a bit. Frankly in the entire country there are a myriad of companies I do not have . My main interest is in the Hudson Valley this has positive and negative aspects. On the negative side are the facts that some of these are extremely rare and there were numerous companies also that most of the people who actually were part of this era are obviously gone. John Clark was a friend of mine he lived up the road He worked at NYK in 1917. he loved to tell of how he demanded a raise for months and then finally got one, a penny, and the foreman was proud of getting it for him ( It must have been an hour or by the piece but it was a penny and not a joke ). He also told of how he got fired for taking the day off to go squirrel hunting. When the foreman asked him why he took off John told him the truth. He was then promptly fired. The foreman told him well John you are a slacker but you aint no liar. He gave him a recommendation and John went down to the lower shop ie Walden Knife and got a job and a raise. John loved to go to church dances and especially if they had bloody marys right up until he passed away a year or two ago he was 104 years old . The air is still quite clear up high in the Catskills and that old european blood is still pretty tough, independent, and honest. That being said there are also some good points in the limited field that I enjoy most. First I have been at it 50 plus years ( My interest began at 8 years old when I used to cross High bridge on the way to school and look at the ruins of NYK like a ghostly fort or Castle. With the cascading waters of a swollen Wallkill river pouring past crashing doen the Wallkill river gorge ,especially in the twilight or on the frozen winters mornings when you had to watch your slippery footing while crossing as the icy wind from the river made your eyes tear. Those were good memorys but they did not last to long and when my parents parted ( it was that or kill each other ). I was moved to Ellenville about 25 miles away. This again was fates way of nudging me into this study since it is where Schrade ( another Walden Knife company had moved in 1956.) I used to trout fish behind the old Uslter, Schrade Knife company in the Bierkill ( originally named for its rich brown beerlike color which had powered the turbines to make the knives ). I would again stare and wonder ( in those days I was very confused like now and I did a lot of staring and wondering ). In any event it started me up this path for good or bad right or wrong. So the point is 50 plus years certainly gives one a leg up on ( an edge ie get it edge oh well ) on garnering these pieces ). Another positive aspect is that this study is finite. There is a definite time period and number of firms. Think of a genalogical chart. It is much easier to trace if you are only going down one branch and only for a 100 or 200 years.

This being said for those of you who collect you know about periferial collections you know when you buy a group of knives for one or two, in the bunch, meaning to sell or trade the others and always end up keeping another one or two just because, well just because you are an addict. These acorns then continue to grow whenever you come across more of those particular knives. If you do not remember doing that than if you are still lucky enough to be married ask your wife she will refresh your memory for you, about periferal collections. Probably by pointing out a room or two with stacks of knives that you have er been meaning to organize. So yes I do have a few knifes from other regions than the Hudson Valley. If I were to be asked what company I could represent the best it would have to be Schrade I am fairly sure that now with the Schrade collection raped and sold by Smokey my collection would be one of the most complete extent ( ie still around ). When I retired as a NYS Peace officer I did some of Schrades customer shows on the East coast Philly, NY ect and would answer questions they received regarding there older antiquitys. Also when they closed as some of you may know I was able to save and salvage a lot of the history which usually ends up in a land site. By the way I know where the landsite for NYK is in Walden as a kid I used to dig in it. Unfortunately there is now a condo complex on the spot. Now I bet after this long winded response you are sorry you asked. Good Hunting LT

[upnorth]

And not just because it's Sunday, but because LT is back in full roar!
It's all well and good to see purty pictures, and brief comments, but it's experience which teaches us most, and we're lucky to have someone generous enough to share it with us!!
Nice hanging with you LT!

[orvet]

Darn LT,
I was hoping for a more complete answer, not just a brief 2 paragraph reply.

I must be a sicko too, because I found your answer made sense and I wanted to hear more. And yes, I know about peripheral collections I just don't understand how you can manage to only keep one or two of the peripheral (unless there are only one or two of them to begin with).

Does this mean I am sicker than you????

I guess I better go see my shrink.
Dale

[lt632ret]

You misspelled the last word of your posting it is DRINK NO S or H

[W5RWU]

LT ,
Could you tell me what knife companies where in the Hudson Valley! Dale if you are going to the shrink
you should not be around sharp items, you better let me take care of your knives!
Always willing to help! Randy

[orvet]

Randy, LT......my dear friends.

With friends like you guys I don't need enemas!

Dale

[lt632ret]

Well Randy that is an easy question to ask but a bit tougher to answer. You have the Genus ( or original companies ) then the Phylum or spinoffs and then the sub phylum or contract companies for which knives were made by local companies. All long time ago on a forum far far away I ran a contest asking people to name as many companies as they could the one with the most would win ( a Schrade hat or something I forget ) I also tried to post a pic of an example of each knife. A couple of contract companies came up new. In fact every so often a new one will appear in my case this happens less and less ( like my sex life er more info than you need ) . However I did get lucky a couple of weeks ago er with a new company not the other thing. So you never know even a blind squirrel gets lucky and get his nut I mean finds a nut sometime. If you include everything I would guess eventually somewhere close but under 100 would be the range. LT

[LRV]

LT,
I gave up after 3o or so..

I got a little lost there in your note... You got lucky with a squirrel?
Didn't we meet over a conversation like this a few years ago?
As I remember there was a discussion about ping pong balls and distance over accuracy....

TTYL
Larry

[relodr36]

I thought it was frequency over longevity/staying power !
Like my carbon steel Schrades - easy to touch up the edge vs the harder Schrade+ that takes longer to get a good edge.
I may have had 2 much Glennlivet at camp.
Ron

[orvet]

Ron,
How was hunting?

Dale

[nifnutt]

Knife-nut,

Nice of you to mention my small effort on Napanoch knives. I was pretty green knife-wise when I did this book in the early 1970's. The Cushner's welcomed me into their home in Napanoch, New York and helped me by providing the information in the book. The Cushmers were the last owners of the Napanoch Knife Company.

Nothing racial, at that time, in the early 1900's was meant by the slogan,
"A white man's knife with a Red man's name".

I was told by a Napanoch local that Napanoch in indian language means "land over flowing with water."

I write this from the Pigeon Forge, Tennessee Parket Knife Show. a great show for old pocket knives.

Regards,

nifnutt

[Rusty1]

nifnutt (Rhett) you do yourself an injustice when you say"small effort"
I agree with everything that LT says on page two of this thread, to carry on from that, I purchased a copy from you back in May this year, the contents in the book, from the catalogue of knives manufactured, to the pictures of the factory inside and out, fascinating information, especially that the company was not in business for very long, and all that is captured together in one book, most enjoyable, I would say it definately is a must read book.

Rusty1

[El Lobo]

Welcome Rhett.

Thank you for stopping in, and sharing a little history about the book.

Please don't be a stranger, stop in anytime.

Bill

[Mossdancer]

Hi;
Just cant let this thread die, Have finally found empirical evidence that being around knives makes for a longer life.
wb

[sunburst]

Wow 72 years working at one business, can you imagine..?? What kind of knife knowledge did this man have inside his head...Great picture mossdancer...

Sunburst

[smiling-knife]

That is incredible and great photo mossdancer. Reportedly, there was a man named William Smith who worked for Joseph Rodgers for 78 years. He started when he was 12. He worked for the co from 1850s to the early 1930s. That's quite a span. Imagine what these people would have experienced.

On the other hand, the life of a grinder in sheffield during the mid 1800s was a very short one. They rarely reached the age of 40 due to Silicosis which became know as 'Grinders' Disease' This was a lung ailment caused by inhaling gritty sandstone and metallic particles over time. Many were willing to take the risk for the additional 'danger' pay. The lytho is from 1884. s-k

[lt632ret]

Apparently these companies had lousy pension plans 78 or 72 years is just a bit to much but yes what smarts and history they must have had. What ticks me off is the guy with 72 years on the job who admittedly does not look spry, still looks like he had more left in the tank. we still have people like that around here it was that old european gene pool one of them is a friend of mine who has a farm. He loads his wagon with hay the way he always has by himself and by throwing the bales on board. Then into the barn where he stacks them. about 20 years ago when I was forty and he was near 70 I made the mistake of offering to help him so that we could get the work done and we could go in and crack a bottle of New York apple jack. well I stayed with him just barely until we finished however I was so beat I had one drink and went home to lie down I left him sitting there slugging down the jack and chain smoking unfiltered cigarettes sucking the smoke deep into his then and now barrel sized chest. The steel these generations produced must have leeched into the blood of these people to make them tough and resiliant enough to pull a 78 or even 72 years tour of duty. Or to clear a field of hay and stack it into your 80tys. True grit you bet cha. As tough and true as a New York Knife. LT

[smiling-knife]

Hi lt and everyone else. Hope you are having a great weekend.

No pensions in those days . Apparently, there was resistance on the part of the grinders to introduction of ventillation systems as this a) would expand the lifespan and thus lead to a surplus of labour and b) make the job safer and lower wages as a result of reducing the danger pay. Quite amazing by today's standards. s-k

[LRV]

Back to some old plant pictures...
Here is a pict of the NY Knife CO way past its prime. Not sure when theis picture was taken but the building looks deserted. And another from a much better time.
Big plant.
TTYL
Larry

[justold52]

"Apparently these companies had lousy pension plans"
Perhaps thats why we see so many lunch box knives too.

Could it be that in U.S.A. the Companys took advantage of their workers !
Is this the same thing that is going on in CHINA now ?

[Mossdancer]

Hi Ken;
I dont believe we have ever had a Communist nor any other Totalitarian form of government.
wb

PS; by the way nice pics Mr. V

[LRV]

LT,
If you ever get a chance could you take a picture of what the NYK area looks like now? Is the bridge still there? Was it the NYK or Walden Knife that now has condo's? Seems to have been a favorite postcard photo spot in the past.
Mossdancer thanks..
Thanks to all.
Larry

[smiling-knife]

Just thought that someone might be interested in this item. s-k

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... &rd=1&rd=1

[lt632ret]

Thankyou SK good looking out. Larry the question of what these places look like now is a good one. By the way the condo is over the dump not the knife company site. Until I can get these here are a couple of pics of NYK after they closed in 1930 look close broken windows ect some people a bit older than me who remember this talk of unscheduled forays they made into the old abandoned building man that must have been fun. In any event because it was abandoned and deemed dangerous its destruction was given to the volunteer fire dept ( and surrounding depts ) as a exercise. This would have been the fortys ( my guess ). Notice the tube running down the building in the shot with the falls I guess that is why the fishing was so good in this area, that was a human waste liquid disposal tube.( ie piss chute ) . It is also in the original pic from 1903. By the way the smallmouth fishing is still pretty good there. Kind of sad really but if I can get pics to show you from the present it is even more depressing. LT