Real or Put-Together?

[tjmurphy]

Don't know if this is real or a put-together knife, but I thought it was interesting. What do you think? Solid, probably N/S, handles.

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[Ramrod]

TJ,
Was it you who outbid me on it??????
Mark

[tjmurphy]

Well, it had to be someone, and I did win it. What are your feelings on the knife? It's neat but I've not seen any others like it.

[Ramrod]

Tj,
I have never seen another either. The way the pins look is a little concerning, but I thought I'd take a chance and inspect it in hand. Let me know what you think when it arrives!
Mark

[tjmurphy]

My guess is that it is a steel pin in N/S handles I think that that would account for it being so proud.

[tjmurphy]

Well, I got the knife today and I am guessing that an old Camillus blade was put into the knife to 1-finish it off and 2-to make it a vintage Camillus. The main blade is not the same size as it's spring, which I think it should be. Anyway, here are some pics.

Ramrod, do the pics answer your questions?

[Ramrod]

Tj,
Thanks for showing those pics. I agree with your assessment, those should be the same thickness. Now I'm interested in knowing what company that frame was from. Let me know ifn ya ever run across one like it, I'll do the same.
Mark

[tjmurphy]

It's still an interesting knife though and I got a tang stamp that I didn't have "41 - '46. Would have been nice if it were original though. I'll watch to see if another like it shows up.

[Miller Bro's]

TJ,

The handles look like solid Nickle Silver.

[tjmurphy]

Yes, they are, not clam-shell. The seller listed them as solid silver, but N-S they are.

[Miller Bro's]

TJ,

If you don`t mind me asking what did this one set you back?

[tjmurphy]

Don't mind at all. $18.59 + ship.

[tjmurphy]

By the way, I think it's a one-of-a-kind prototype, worth thousands

[Miller Bro's]

Well TJ, I think you got one hell of a deal

I have looked at a lot of knives over the years, and you don`t see too many old knives with solid nickle silver handles, in this pattern. You will see advertising pen knives of the two bladed variety, Challenge made a Rooster nutter, and then there are the English rope and sportsman`s knives. Also fishing and scout knives were made by some of the older companies with N.S handles.

But the more I look at your pictures the more I think your handles are not nickle silver. They look like a material called Stellite. It was invented by Elwood Haynes in 1898-99, he got a patent for it in 1907, in 1910 he formed the Haynes Stellite company and began producing pocket knives. He used the material on the handles and for blades. It is a cobalt-chromium alloy.

He also held a patent for Stainless Steel. The knives had lines cut into the Stellite to simulate the bolsters and to give them, the handles, some design.

Now, the blades on your knife have obviously been replaced, hence the steel pin. There is only one way to be sure and that would be to test the metal to see what the composition is.

I could be wrong but it may very well have started out as a Haynes and down the road the blades got replaced.

Dimitri

[tjmurphy]

Wow Dimitri, that's really interesting. The secondary blade appears to be original to the knife. It is different in appearence to the main blade which is carbon steel and shows no signs of fusting or pitting. I'll slop a little tomato juice on it tonight and see if it is tarnished by tomorrow. If it is indeed Stellite, the blade should not be tarnished or rusted in the morning. Maybe put a little on the handles as well. What do you think of that idea?

[tjmurphy]

I did a quick test on the secondary blade using a magnet and the blade is steel, not stellite. Therefore if the body of the knife is Haynes, then both blades have been replaced. Oh well.

[orvet]

Looking at that spring and the wear on the spring from the narrower blade; that that blade was replaced a long time ago.
If this in indeed a put together and not an original, it was done so many years ago that you can be sure that it was not done to defraud anyone.

See how the round end of the blade has worn a notch in the end of the spring? That knife was used for years to have that much wear on the end of the spring. It was done long before anyone was collecting Camillus knives. It was probably put into that frame when most of us were kids, or before some of us were born.

What ever it is & whenever it was made, it is nice. I like it.
Congrats.

Dale

[Miller Bro's]

TJ,

From what I understand and from what few of these I have seen. Not all the blades were made of Stellite. Some had regular carbon blades and just Stellite handles. The pen blade could be original to your frame, who knows.

A very interesting knife

[tjmurphy]

Wow Dale, you see everything. I'd have never ever seen that unless by accident. I looked very closely and could not find a pattern number on it anywhere. Wonder what the original blade configuration was?

[orvet]

TJ,
On some older knives I see for repair (c. early 1900s), it is not uncommon to find that the spring has worn down into the round end (or square end that was common then) of the tang and leave a little thin sliver of metal at the edge of the tang. This is caused by the spring being harder than the tang.

On your knife the tang is harder than the spring and has worn into the spring.
The wear on your knife appears to be much less than on many older knives I see.

As you might imagine, this sort of wear definitely has a negative effect on the snap of the blade.

Dale

[tjmurphy]

You're absolutely correct Dale, the main blade (the thin one) is very lazy, about a 2 on a 1-10 for snap in either direction.