Question for switchblade repairs (firing mechanisms)

[Gus]

I curious about the temper of lever and button mechanisms on switchblades. I'm just guessing when I figure the lever on a German style springer should be tempered as a spring to a blue/ blue-grey???

What about a button mech on a stiletto?? Seems the button part should be harder and the pin part be spring tempered??

thanks

[Gus]

No one has any opinions, observations, pontifications, or otherwise on this subject?

fair enough




"always taking apart and searching for answers"

[orvet]

I haven't worked on them much, so I didn't have an opinion or even a guess.
I think most people are in the same boat.

Dale

[Gus]

crying shame welp I reckon I'm alone on this one, but it wouldn't be the first time, guess it would take all the fun out of it if someone helped huh? I know Muskrat Man has handled his fair share. Probably doesn't wanna give away them trade secrets . I've mostly been taking knives with ground/broken blades and diving in and making new ones, pure trial n error with success and failure, but I would like to start from scratch and it would be nice to know a few things for sure. I really don't mind messing things up and learning as I go, but it gets expensive and takes alot of time. such is life

[orvet]

Well Gus,
That is how I started.
I bought a bunch of flea market knives, old broken American made ones mostly, and took them apart and put them back together.

After about 2 years I found a book on pocket knife repair.
By that time I had discovered most of the basics by trial & error!

Dale

[Gus]

That's the general consensus at least in this hobby. I've been involved in a lot of other things over the years. I was really into building my own guitar stompboxes and vintage analog synths before this hobby and you could not get enough help and information. Now you don't want someone holding your hand, but in the knife world it's a lot of "buy some knives and take them apart" It's nice when you get a little nudge though. Like I jumped right onto peening pins but had some trouble with the backspring pin bending before it was peened it wasn't til a month ago and it was only in passing talking to a guy on the phone he said "well when you heat up your brass before peening" I was like huh? He didn't even tell me directly, so I tried it and now no problems what so ever. I read these threads about peeing and no one ever mentions softening up the brass first? But I bet people do. You gotta gain that respect, I reckon it goes the same with actually wanting to buy broken knives and learn to fix them someone will sell them to a respected forumite before they sell to a bottom feeder. dog eat dog, but I like dog, lol. I just like fixing old switches because I can't afford ones in nice condition and I enjoy a good project and keeping my hands and mind busy. There's not a lot of info on switches that I can find and I've looked and looked. At least on temper of the firing mechs. I am sure the lever is spring temper on a lever lock just not sure about button mech on a italian. over and out.

[orvet]

Heating brass pins before you peen them?
How do you keep from burning the handle material?

I don't heat my pins. This is the first I have heard of it.

Dale

[coffeecup]

Dale, I think he means to anneal the pin stock. I know if you use brazing rod, it will peen a little easier if the stock is annealed first.

Jim

[Gus]

anneal the pin stock

yup!

[orvet]

I don't know how much brazing rod costs, but I buy two 3' lengths of 1/16" brass rod at my local Ace Hardware store for about $3.98. That figures out to about 66¢ per foot.
The larger diameter rod is a bit more expensive.
It is a little more expensive to order it through a knife supply house, but not much.
I have noticed that the brand of rod I get from Ace is the same brand that I get from knife suppliers.

I would think that annealing the rod would be a pain; an extra step, more time and expense.

What is advantage to using brazing rod?

Dale

[coffeecup]

When I built my first Kentucky rifle back in the early '80s--about the same time I started playing with repairing and building knives--the local hardware stores didn't carry brass rod. I could mail order it (about $1 per plus S&H, at a time when I made about $8/wk on my paper route) or do like everyone else and just use brazing rod. Annealing was just part of the process, and one I hadn't considered until now.

It builds a different mindset. Need a smaller diameter? Roll it with a file, or hammer it down and dress it with a file, or take a set of letter bits and make a drawplate. Need an escutcheon pin? A couple pieces of scrap metal and ten minutes work yielded a heading jig. Any such pin would need annealing, often once or twice while working and again before peening. (My peening hammer was homemade too: a piece of scrap iron filed into a quasi-cross-pein hammer shape.)

German silver was a bit trickier. For small pins I could cut up a Canadian nickel, but for larger pins I'd just use scrap silver. Even after the Hunt brothers tried to corner the market, I could usually find a piece of old silver tableware in the scrap box or at an auction.

Like I said, a different mindset. Even today, unless I know in advance I will need a particular size I work down what I have or improvise.

Jim

[Gus]

The brass stock I buy at the local hobby shop grinds down while sizing and peens much better after a few seconds under the torch.

[orvet]

Occasionally I get a knife with an odd size pin and have to take down a pin to get a good fit.
But I find it easier to keep in stock 7 or 8 different size brass pin stock and about the same number of sizes in nickel silver.

I will set down and spin heads on a bunch of pins so I have a couple dozen pins ready to use, especially for scale pins. For scale pins I usually use 1/16" brass pins.
For me it is much faster, especially when I am trying to get caught up with a lot of orders.
I don't end up with a pin that is a hair too large or too small.
Since I use the same brand, I don't have to anneal them and I have a consistent material to use.

It works for me.
I realize that other people have different methods.
The cool thing about this forum is that we can share the different methods we use.

Dale

[Gus]

I like how this post has nothing to do with switchblade mechs. I haven't been doing this for years or anything but I have several sizes of pin stock and I think besides scale pins I have had to chuck down about every other pin for every knife I've taken apart. I haven't been lucky enough that the stock just fits in. Maybe I need more sizes.

[Miller Bro's]

Gus,

If you are replacing a pin in a bolster, say nickle silver or steel, instead of taking the pin stock down why not drill out the hole slightly to accomodate the pin stock?

I have seen this done by a very experienced knife mechanic, I have never seen him take the pin down except on the handles when you would want to keep the knife original.

[coffeecup]

I like how this post has nothing to do with switchblade mechs.

What, you don't expect us to stay on topic, do you?

Honestly, what I know about switchblades could be written large on the head of a pin. I think I have one (broken of course) but have no idea where it is. Keep those qualifications in mind when you read the following.

On a stilleto, I'd first try a spring-hardened pin with a button made of mild steel then case-hardened. Maybe that would help take up some of the abuse (judging by the number of parts I hear about breaking). On the German lever dohickey, I'd probably try it a bit softer than spring hard--draw it back maybe 100-150 degrees hotter. Heck, I might even try case-hardened mild steel.

This is simply because it is usually easier to make other parts than springs, so I want the lever and associated parts to take up the shock and wear. Harden the pin, because it can be a major pain to remove a bent pin. But as I wrote, I have no idea what I'm talking about here . . . maybe with a little luck someone who actually does know something will see what I wrote and tell us how far off-base I am.

Jim

[Gus]

hahhaha coffeecup thanks for bringing back around! If you find that broken switch pm me I'd take it off your hands for a future patient. It's alright we're off topic it's nice throwing some things on the table.

Miller bro's to answer your question I have done that but I opt to spin down the pins because drilling through the backspring and blade can be tuff (for me) cause I have some sub par drill bits.

[coffeecup]

drilling through the backspring and blade can be tuff (for me) cause I have some sub par drill bits.

Gosh, it's a shame you don't have 2 five gallon buckets of misc aerospace-surplus bits, lathe tools, etc sitting in your shop . . . . like me! Send me the diameters you are looking for and I'll watch for some jobber-length bits for you. Might take a while--like the end of summer--before I get to it. Anyone else want me to watch for anything?

Jim

(edited because I can't spell)

[muskrat man]

I would have responded to this sooner but i've been busy with other things. The sear pin must be the same temper as the blade so one does not wear the other just knife a knife tang and a backspring. so generally they should be near spring temper maybe a tad harder a purple or dark blue would be my first choice. To drill tempered steel or even untempered steel for that matter got to drillbitcity/com they have everything in pure carbine and they will cut damn near anything but go slow, they will shatter like a glass spindle.

[Gus]

Thanks for the insight MM, but most blades are tempered to a straw yellow right? At least for me 0-1 and a backspring blue/purple are these close enough tempers to be fine? Pardon my ignorance.