Swords Questions

[A&E]

My friend handed me these two swords and asked me to research them for him. I told him I'd post a few pics on my knife forum to see what others had to say. Any information would be great. Production dates? Value? Anything? I know nothing. Thanks.

[Owd Wullie]

One of those "swords" is a bayonet currently on ebay.

I don't have my book in front of me, but the serial numbers of the sheath do not match the blade. Not uncommon for that vintage. Off the top of my head I think it is French. As for $$?? As little as I could get away with if I really just HAD to have it.

The sword looks to be a "dress" or "presentation" grade of officer's saber. I don't know which model or from what war. Appears to be in great shape.

I quit fooling with swords 20 years ago so I have no idea as to what it should be worth or what would constitute a good buy on it. More research would be in order I'd think before I shelled out much money.

[Joe Dirt]

Here's an ad from "January 1906 Boating magazine".
Apparently E.A. Armstrong MFG CO. owned a half a city block and had there hands on an array of many different things!

................ Joe

[Owd Wullie]

Frank Henderson was selling and / or making swords, regalia and military goods from 1850 until his death in 1899 and his company, Henderson-Ames co continuing until 1923. From 1850 to 1871 he operated his business under his name, Frank Henderson, in Kalamazoo MI. In 1871, Henderson formed a partnership with Theron F Giddings and started the Henderson & Giddings co. This only lasted until 1873 when the name was changed back to Frank Henderson. From 1873 to 1893 Henerson put out catalogs selling fraternal goods and began selling as an agent for the Ames Sword co. In 1893, Henderson consolidated his regalia company with the Chicago based branch of the Ames Sword Co forming the Henderson Ames Co. In 1894, Henderson bought the Detroit regalia factory of E. A. Armstrong, including sword plant, stock, tools, machinery, furniture and fixtures. When Henderson died in 1899, his firm continued in business until it was purchased and dissolved by M. C. Lilley co in 1923.

I'd say it predates 1894. Upon further research it appears to a Model 1872 Cavalry Officers sword.

Here's a google search. Have fun;
http://www.google.com/search?q=e.a.%20a ... a=N&tab=iw

[A&E]

Thanks for the information guys. My friend will be interested to hear this.

I'm not sure if y'all realize it but there are two swords here. One is shorter and straight - the other is long and curved. I probably should have made that more clear. The first five pictures are of the shorter sword. The 5th picture is on the top of the blade.

[Joe Dirt]

Hay A&E, I'm with wullie on the first one being a bayonet!
Note the hole for the riffle barrel and the straightness of the spine!

............... Joe

[Joe Dirt]

I researched the engraving and found this old post on the bayonet:

# 3790 - French Model 1866 Chassepot Bayonet
4/4/01
Lisa, Placida Fl.


Sabre? For Gun? -
Mre, d'Armes de St. Etiemme 1878 I was wondering if you knew anything of the sabers that went onto French weapons in 1878 and what I might have here. the engraving is on the top of the blade. looks like a very common piece but I was just interested in the history of the signature writing. and if it was used in a certain confrontation etc. thanks. Lisa

Answer:
Lisa, I suspect that what you have is a French Model 1866 Chassepot bayonet. These were manufactured in large quantities by a number of French arsenals. People often mistake the marking that you mention "Mre, d'Armes de St. Etienne 1878" on the back of the blade to be the name of the soldier the bayonet was issued to. "Mre, d'Armes de St. Etienne " is actually the arsenal where the bayonet was manufactured and "1878" is the year of manufacture. Values for 1866 Chassepot bayonets are in the $50 to $100 range depending on condition. Marc

[Cope]

Eric, there is an AAPK member that restores and handles swords. I think his name is dudleythetogi??? It's something like that anyway and maybe someone will recognize it if isn't exactly right. You could shoot him a PM. I haven't seen him post in a while though.

[buckeyefan]

JOE DIRT, you are a research machine!
I always enyoy reading your posts!

Marty

[testcase]

The first is a French Bayonet, the big hook is to "Stack Arms", which means to hook three or more into a stand of arms.

The second appears to be very late 19th, or early 20th century private purchase Officer saber. I don't think it was much before the turn of the Century if at all.

Nice rayskin Grip