Case Steel

longbeachbum · Post by **longbeachbum** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 4:52 am

This should be an easy one for the Case fans on the board.

Can someone tell me a little about "Tru-Sharp Surgical" stainless? Is this similar to any of the generic stainless steel types such as 440C, 420HC, ATS34, etc.?

If not does anyone know the material composition and/or the properties of this steel?

I have accumulated quite a few Case knives with Tru-Sharp stainless, and it occurred to me that I don't know anything about it. I assume it's high carbon stainless but that's about as far as I can speculate.

Thanks!

Bryan · Post by **Bryan** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:51 pm

Hi Jim,

I don't do a real good job keeping up on new Case knives, but I am almost 100% sure it is very very similar in content to 440C. I think Case makes it sound like it's their own special formula, and you probably won't get them to say "yep; we use 440C", but I think that is it. How they heat treat and all that; I don't know. If I get time I may email and ask just to see what they say about it.

Bryan

longbeachbum · Post by **longbeachbum** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 7:39 am

Well that sounds pretty good to me. 420HC seems to be getting pretty popular (Buck, Schatt & Morgan, Canal Street) and I was hoping it was more like 440C or D2.

Thanks Bryan, once again.

Regards,

Jim

El Lobo · Post by **El Lobo** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 1:27 pm

I believe that the main reasons 420HC is so popular, are that it's purchased in rolls (often called coiled), and it's much easier to store...it can be blanked into blade shapes much easier than the 440 series (A, B, or C)...and it contains less Carbon, so it's easier on the equipment, and it is much cheaper than any 440. Especially 440C, which is still a proven and popular steel with many customer makers, in spite of all the new formulations, and powdered steels available.

Jim, D-2 is not really a (stains-less) steel...it's a carbon tool steel, that resists rust pretty well, but will pepper or spot.
Even if you leave your stainless Miracle Blade 3 (420 J2?) wet by the sink, it will water spot. (OK,OK, just kidding on that one

).

I'm borrowing this from A.G. Russell's site, I think he wants folks to have access to all the knife information available, and I doubt he would mind:

http://www.agrussell.com/knife_informat ... index.html

I may have posted this in another thread, but it's early and I'm too lazy to look.

Bill

P.S.
OK, here's another chart for you engineers...

http://www.timken.com/products/specialt ... Steels.pdf

longbeachbum · Post by **longbeachbum** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 9:58 pm

Change of subject, but I think it's a shame that makes who cater primarily to the collector market are resorting to 420HC, a relatively cheap and marginal performing steel. For what you pay for a Schatt & Morgan or a Canal St. Cutlery knife, you should be getting first class blade steel to go with the first class workmanship and handle materials. I'm guessing the logic is that these knives will never really be used, so why waste money on expensive high performance steel, right? However I think that these knives will be a dissappointment in terms of collector value in the long run, since they're not really excellent knives, and just about all knives with enduring collector value are. You can't have an excellent knife without an excellent blade. It would be like building a great looking car with a crappy engine and expecting it to be a classic.

I could be way off the beam as I'm very much a novice with regard to knives and knife collecting, but this is the impression I've formed. I'd be very interested to know what others think.

El Lobo · Post by **El Lobo** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 11:23 pm

I agree that if you expect to set the bar high, and price a knife accordingly, that a maker/manufacturer should use, and the buyer expect, more than the most basic steel in a knife, even if the heat treating is as good as it should be.
I see Canal Street is coming out with some blades in D2 (probably still from Queen) so maybe...maybe we'll see more like this.

Bill

longbeachbum · Post by **longbeachbum** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 4:48 am

Hi Bill:

Thats true, some of the Canal St. Cuterly knives are done in D2, and I also know that Schatt & Morgan makes some knives with ATS 34. I'd certainly be willing to pay top dollar for either of these makes with these high end steels, but I'll never buy another one with 420.

I do like Buck knives, 420 HC notwithstanding. My understanding is the heat treat is so good that it makes a very good blade. Plus, Buck knives tend to be reasonably priced.

Regards,

Jim

Bryan · Post by **Bryan** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 3:08 pm

Boy do I feel like a big dummy... Just got an email from Case stating that Tru-Sharp Surgical is Case's trade name for 420 HC ... That really surprised me. I recall on several occasions reading / hearing that it was 440C. I wonder if Case used 440C at one time and later changed to 420 HC in their SS blades. ...and if so; I wonder when. Back to my email to ask more questions. I'll report what I find.

Bryan

longbeachbum · Post by **longbeachbum** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:09 am

Thanks very much for the information Bryan, although I find that a shame. I hate to say it, but German makers are looking better and better to me. With many if not most of them, you at least have the option of carbon steel.

El Lobo · Post by **El Lobo** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:49 am

You know Jim,

You're starting to sound like a man ready for a custom slipjoint.

Bill

Bryan · Post by **Bryan** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 2:30 am

Hey Jim,

I agree... I think it's a shame as well. Here is some more info about 420, 420HC, 440A, 440C etc...

link

El Lobo · Post by **El Lobo** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 2:56 am

Hey,
I might be leaving tomorrow, but I recognize that link (Timken) from my post up above.
Pretty funny Bryan.

Bill

Bryan · Post by **Bryan** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 3:23 am

Oh geez, I might as well go to bed. I'm not doing anybody any good around here...

Bryan

longbeachbum · Post by **longbeachbum** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:47 am

I'm beginning to wonder what the advantage of owning a Case over a chinese made Steel Warrior or Boker Magnum is, from purely a user standpoint. The fit and finish are definitely comparable. In fact the couple chinese knives I have compare favorably to Case in fit and finish. The chinese knives generally have 440A steel. If case is using 420HC, I'm really wondering how the huge price difference can be justified. American made and tradition do mean something, but does it justify a price difference of about 400%?

jmays · Post by **jmays** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:07 am

i dont know about CV blade material but i love the SS steels finish!

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:18 pm

From what I have been able to read lately Case "Tru-Sharp Surgical" stainless is 420HC. It is a stainless steel available in large rolls, cut so that they can stamp out hundreds of blades with each stamp of a large press. The remaining steel can be recycled, not necessarily for knives but I guess that's possible. CV, I have read is a variant of 1095 with added Chromium and Vanadium to make a fine carbon steel. I love to see a well earned patina on an older CV blade.