Grooved Bolsters

[Vaughn]

I was wondering if any one can give me information on a Buck 301 with grooved bolsters. I may have a chance to get one and was wondering if there is any value to them.
I appreciate the help.

[Vaughn]

This is the actual knife

[gino]

I know with older camillus knives (stockman etc...) the bolsters had gooves. the newer ones do not. Not sure with buck but I assume it would be simular,

here is an example of a older gooved camillus

[jb4570]

There is little to no value in a knife in that condition. The main blade was half use up before it was use to arc weld
jb4570

[orvet]

Vaughn,
I agree with jb, that any collector value that knife may have is erased by the poor condition of the knife.
The used up blades and damaged handle would land it in the parts bin in my shop if it were mine.
Personally I wouldn't give more than about $3 for it, and then only for parts.

However you do raise an interesting question; When were those made with the grooved bolsters?
Does anyone know?

Dale

[useem]

Grooved bolsters and all blades marked 'BUCK' , were made by Schrade in the early days. Thats about all i know.

[300Bucks]

Fellars,

Schrade made that well used knife for Buck on contract. Buck has always had a lifetime warranty program and the way those knives are constructed made broken blade replacement difficult. The pivot pin is hidden under the bolsters surface. So Buck carried these very first Buck Stockmen in 1966 and 67. These grooved bolster (301 sized) knives had no model number stamped anywhere. Schrade made another version of the 301 and 303s with smooth bolsters and then one more marked Buck on the secondary blades from 67 to 71..

They (Buck) then switched contract to Camillus (72) which made there knives with exposed pivot pins and allowed the blade to be replaced simply by knocking out pin and put in new blade and pin. They kept the contract for some Buck knives up into the 1990's. Buck took over making their own 301s, 303s,309s and 305s with the 1986 models. They (Buck) added the 310,312 and 314. Camillus made knives popped up from left over parts even as the factory closed. Some knives made by Buck/Camillus were done specially for SMKWs and most of those DON'T show a model number on the knife. Then the China Bucks came out and they do have model numbers. And so it goes.

So because of the pin type, even as a parts knife for someone with say a broken scale you will really have to know what you are doing to fool with it.
300Bucks

[orvet]

300Bucks,
Schrade used the Swinden Key system on most of their slipjoints, including those they made for Buck.

When Schrade replaced the blades, I think they replaced the entire inner assembly, which contained all blades and the master blade spring on a three-blade pattern. It was probably cheaper for them as all they needed to do was remove the rocker pin, remove the scale/bolster/outer liner assembly and put them on a new blade assembly and replace the rocker pin; about a 5 minute job or less if they were set up properly for it.

However for someone buying them on contract, without the initial cost savings that the Swinden system gave the original manufacturer, they would be a pain in the butt and much more labor intensive, not to mention more expensive. I have replaced many of them, and with practice it is not hard. I just cut the Swinden rivet and drill out the bolsters. But I can certainly see Buck’s perspective on the whole matter!

On the other hand, Schrade probably was not wanting to go to the expense of retooling to make slipjoints without the Swinden Key when their other factory, (i.e. Camillus), was already set up to make non-Swinden slipjoints.

I will have to ask Chuck or Joe Houser next month at the OKCA show, but I imagine Schrade may have suggested that Buck go to Camillus since Albert Baer owned both companies.

So because of the pin type, even as a parts knife for someone with say a broken scale you will really have to know what you are doing to fool with it.
300Bucks

Actually just replacing a scale on a Swinden knife, (assuming that there is no blade play that needs to be tightened), is easier and faster on a Swinden knife than on a conventional knife, once you get some practice. I can change scales on a Swinden knife a lot easier and faster than I can on a traditional pin-through-bolster knife. Just remove the rocker pin, give the scales a slight twist and the knife is apart. Change the scales, put the knife back together, replace the pin and I am done. For me it is 20% to 30% faster, once I figured out the Swinden System.

But the first one was a nightmare!

Dale

[300Bucks]

HEY, Great info. I can use this in the future....

I think you are spot on. Heres a photo of the "key" so guys have an picture to go with the description.....

I know who to go to for Schrade/Buck questions now.

300Bucks

[300Bucks]

While we are on Bucks from the Schrade contract era, here are the other two variations. Only came in 301 and 303 sized stockmen.

The photo description is a hair off. Guess I need to retake that photo. Click on photo to make it bigger.

The second version Schrade, Variation 1, has smooth bolsters with nothing stamped on reverse of any blade. Variation 2, has BUCK stamped on back of secondary blades. Works the same for the 301 sized knife as the 303 sized.

There is something about the serptine shape that is attractive to me. I carry a old Schrade model 303 as a EDC quite a bit. But am careful not to use it for heavy duty twisting type cutting. When you find one you will be lucky if it is not loose and it isn't being priced around $50.

300Bucks