The All Scout Knives Thread

[Sswingle]

Nice banner shield as well!!!!!

[RobesonsRme.com]

Other than the mechanical advantage of utilizing a nail nick at almost the end of the blade, can anyone explain the historical reasoning or significance behind double pulls on master blades of certain patterned knives by certain manufacturers?

They are most often seen on toenails and folding hunters, as well as other heavy duty knives.

I think they are more commonly seen on knives, circa 1900, from some, but not all of the older makers.

I have never (I don't think, CRS setting in ) seen a double pull blade on a Robeson knife.

Charlie Noyes

[philco]

Here are a few Official Scouts with shared DNA. Top two are Ulster USA, next is a Camillus, and bottom is an Imperial.

Second photo is, top to bottom, Camillus, Ulster USA, and Imperial.

Can you see a family resemblance?

Phil

[philco]

Here are a couple more Ulster USAs.

These two are the five bladed variety, also Official Boy Scout knives.

Phil

[Sswingle]

Those are some sweet scout knives Phil! I especially like the white handle versions and the 5 bladed Ulsters. Very solid and functional, just like a good scout should be!

[orvet]

Nice knives Phil & a great set up for some info I got recently from Tom Williams.

Phil did me the favor of sending me a nice pic of one of his for the following article.


If you look eBay for old Boy Scout knives you'll find one of the most readily available brands, at this point in time, are those bearing the Ulster name. If you do a search of Ulster knives on eBay you will find the most readily available pattern is the Scout Knife.

I have often wondered why the Scout knife was so common since it is generally accepted that by the 1970s the Ulster tang stamp is no longer used by Imperial Schrade. Recently I found the answer, not from researching Schrade but some new information I received from Tom Williams who was the Company Historian for Camillus Cutlery Company.

Below you'll find a copy of two S-cards from Camillus. The S-card was a tool Camillus used in their plant. It was a card 8 ½” x 5 ½”, half the size of a sheet of notebook paper that gave the factory workers detailed information on the construction and materials of a particular knife. This included the blade patterns, die numbers, blade steel, blade size, blade grind, shield, nail nicks blade finish, handle material, liners & liner material, and a whole host of other information including the tang stamp to be used on the knife and the company that ordered that knife.

The picture below is photocopy of the fronts of two S-cards for Imperial Knife Associated Companies, (IKAC). The first card has a sample date of January 3, 1984 and the second card has a sample date of August 6, 1985. The backs of these cards are typically blank with the exception of hand written notations. These notations often include the quantity and date of when the orders are filled.

These cards are the key to why there are so many Ulster Scout knives on eBay. Like many things in life, they are not always what they seem on the surface. Camillus was known as the "knife makers knife maker." It was quite common in the cutlery industry for one company to manufacture knives or certain patterns of knives for other companies. Camillus was one of the biggest providers of certain knife patterns, especially working knife patterns, to other knife making companies. The camper pattern, commonly called a Scout knife, was one such pattern. Camillus provided this type of knives to the US military before, during and after World War II. They also made these knives or a number of companies besides their own Camillus and Camco brands.

The more I research the history of knife companies, the more I see how much they are contacted. This bit of information on the production of this one pattern shows glimpses of the connection between not only Ulster and Camillus but Imperial and Schrade as well. It's a long and interesting story of how those companies came together under the ownership of one man. But it's a long story that will have to wait for another time.

One bit of information I would add is that there were some numbers & dates written on the back of one of these S-cards. The info was cut off by the edge of the photocopy so I can't read them all. They were hand written and some are illegible but here is the info ac best as I can read it:

11,200 -P.O. 9253 - 11/83, (First Time) The first 2 numbers are hard to read. It could be 4,200 or 11,200
0,000 - P.O. - 9341 - 6/84 -there is one or more numbers cut off at the edge of the paper. This means that there were at least 10,000 knives in this one P.O. (purchase order)

3,000 Pcs to cover shortage - 4/85
168 - 6/14/85
611 - 8/16/85
665 - 9/20/85

These 3,000 pieces seem to refer to another order of 4/85 which is not listed on the S-card.

These numbers give us a clue to why there is such a large quantity of these Scout knives currently available on ebay. I have no doubt that there were other orders that were not listed on the back of the S-card.

I hope this info is interesting and helpful to Scout knife collectors.

Dale

[orvet]

I got a call from Tom today. He gave me the production numbers that were cut off by the copy machine.

21,200 -P.O. 9253 - 11/83, (First Time)
30,000 - P.O. - 9341 - 6/84

3,000 Pcs to cover shortage - 4/85
168 - 6/14/85
611 - 8/16/85
665 - 9/20/85

With over 50,000 of these knives being made in the mid 1980s, it is no wonder they are so common on ebay today!

Ya' gotta' love a company that puts out that many good knives!

Dale

[Absintheur]

I made a stop I hadn't for a while at a "antique" (read junk) shop and while I wasn't really looking for anything in particular I decided to stop on a whim. If there hadn't been parking right in front of the store I wouldn't have bothered. But parking was there and I stopped and went in. Walking up and down the isles just scanning the items offered I wound up at the front counter. Was a bit excited to see several older carving knives and thought it would be nice to pick up some old stag but all were faux stag. I was getting ready to head out when I looked in a box of junk knives with a sign "Your pick $5". I stirred them with a finger, saw rust, dirt, and a lot of broken blades and starting walking out when a nagging thought struck me. Did I see a Scout knife in the box? I stood with my hand on the door for several seconds and I swear I heard a voice telling me to go look again. Sure enough there was a grimy, dirt encrusted and rusty scout style knife in the box. I wiped the grime off the shield and sure enough the Scout emblem was there. Breaking off both thumbnails (I completely forgot about the Bulldog opener on my keychain) I managed to get all 4 blades open and they were complete and unbroken under the rust. I managed to clean enough grime off the tang of the main blade to see a circle stamp. Well I ponied up the $5 and walked out. When I got home the cleaning started, wanting to remove rust but not steel I used every trick I knew to expose the hidden steel. To my amazement I was holding a Remington Scout knife made between 1924 and 1933. The cleaning continued and I have stopped at the point you see in the pics below. (I am sorry I completely forgot to take before pics but I am sure you all can imagine what it looked like)

Why did I stop that day? I don't know...I was actually running a bit late and ended up buying dinner instead of making it for Pop. Why did I go back and look again? No answer for that either. The screwdriver/lifter blade has a light tweak but the main is 98% there. The can opener and awl are both 100% At any rate it is once again ready to be used as intended. The main blade came up to a hair shaving edge very easily and while I intend to do a bit more cleaning inside it is ready for use. It walks and talks well now that oil has been worked into the joints and I know it has stories to tell.

[philco]

Nice knife and a great story to go with it.

I'm glad it found its way to someone who will care for it and appreciate it for what it is and what it has been.

Hey, maybe someday it'll tell stories about the adventures it had with you.

Phil

[rangerbluedog]

I stood with my hand on the door for several seconds and I swear I heard a voice telling me to go look again.

It wasn't a little green fairy was it? ABSINTHE is an adventure...

[WelderBob]

I found this Craftsman scout/utility at a local G & K show..
I'm not real sure but I think it's a Ulster made in the 60's...?

[Just Plain Dave]

SWEET WelderBob! Spearpoint blades are just SO FINE!

[268bull]

Here are two of my scout/utility, scout knives. The top knife is a scout/utility Pal cutlery. I've seen a Pal Scout knife and it is identical, only with an emblem. The bottom knife is an Ulster Scout knife, unfortunately lacking a bail. Both well made and sturdy knives. Bull

[Just Plain Dave]

Bails might be authentic and pretty, but my Ulster hasn't got one either.

In fact only my old Case Scout has a bail. None of my other knives do.

[philco]

Those bails can be a pain in the pocket if you carry a scout utility. They were made to allow the knife to be attached by a clip to the belt and they work just fine for that. But if you opt to put you knife in your pocket the bail tends to make it uncomfortable to carry. I suspect that is why so many scout utility knifes are seen without the bail.

Phil

[Absintheur]

Bails serve other functions as well, many was the times I was setting up camp and a piece of paracord was tied to the bail and tossed over a high limb to either set up shelter or get my food high off the ground. On my Demo knife it served as a plumb bob, a weight to check water depth, even as a handle to tighten ropes.

I almost always carry a scout or utility pattern on a clip or in a pouch but I never noticed it uncomfortable in the pocket.

[Aimus Moses]

Those bails can be a pain in the pocket if you carry a scout utility. They were made to allow the knife to be attached by a clip to the belt and they work just fine for that. But if you opt to put you knife in your pocket the bail tends to make it uncomfortable to carry. I suspect that is why so many scout utility knifes are seen without the bail.

Phil

Yea but think of how all the girls liked and talked about you Phil carrying that scout knife with a bail on it in your pocket.

[RobesonsRme.com]

Oh yeah. I can just hear them now; "Would you look at the BAILS on that guy!"

Charlie Noyes

[Aimus Moses]

Oh yeah. I can just hear them now; "Would you look at the BAILS on that guy!"

Charlie Noyes

Aimus

[philco]

Oh yeah. I can just hear them now; "Would you look at the BAILS on that guy!"

Charlie Noyes

Aw shucks, I thought they were sayin something else.

[Sswingle]

Wow - that last round of bad jokes almost killed the thread.

Here's a treat... this is a Camillus Whittler with scout shield that our very own Dale Vincent rehandled for me in stag. Turned out absolutely beautiful. I believe the scales have a history. Maybe Dale will give us some info as well. Note that the pre-rehandling pictures are added for dramatic effect. The story behid this whittler and it's brother was that they sat in the window of an old cutlery shop and the sun did it's thing to the scales.

Camillus Whittler Pre-Rehandling.jpg

Camillus Whittler Front.jpg

Camillus Whittler Back.jpg

Camillus Whittler Front_Close.jpg

[philco]

Oh Baby!!!! That looks MIGHTY FINE!!!!!!

Kudos to you and Dale for a nice restoration.


Phil

[tjmurphy]

I sent Dale one just like it, it should be just about done by now. Hope he didn't send you my knife. Just kidding. I'm having him do mine in bone of his choice. Hope it turns out as nice as yours. Congrats.

[Sswingle]

Thanks guys! It is definitely a beauty. However, Dale derserves all of the congrats... He does some real good work. And.... he's a really nice guy!!!

I bet bone will look amazing as well.

I've got a twin to this one, maybe I'll try bone on that if yours turns out nice.....

[orvet]

Here's a treat... this is a Camillus Whittler with scout shield that our very own Dale Vincent rehandled for me in stag. Turned out absolutely beautiful. I believe the scales have a history. Maybe Dale will give us some info as well.

The stag I put on Steve's knife came from the Henckels factory. As most of you probably know, Henckels stopped making pocket knives in-house circa 1960. Since that then they nave been made mainly by Boker IIRC.

The nice thing about the old stag is the color and texture.
We rarely see stag like this today.

I am glad you like it Steve!

Dale