Standard Knife Co

smiling-knife · Post by **smiling-knife** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:36 pm

I don't know anything about these, but I'm posting this one only based on the laws of probability. From my limited research, the Standard Knife Co of Little Valley NY dates from the very early 1900s. Thus, unlikely to be many 'mint' knives still about. Perhaps an uncovered treasure from the 'ultimate Case collectible' property

. Anyone...have a comment on this? s-k

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Standard-Knife-Co ... dZViewItem

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:24 pm

That is likely one of Parker's "found in a warehouse" old/new stock. It is also a dead ringer for the Bulldog Warncliffe Whittlers.

jonet143 · Post by **jonet143** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:16 am

casetested, who was the owner of the trademark when the knife was produced for the trvka? was original tooling used?

ButchTN · Post by **ButchTN** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 4:47 am

Hi. I was told by one of the local dealers I trade with that, Jim Parker used to own the trademark and that those knives were made in the Olbertz factory. That may not be the case, I am just passing on what was told to me when I asked about it.

Butch

jonet143 · Post by **jonet143** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:29 am

thanks casetested, and butchtn.

smiling-knife · Post by **smiling-knife** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:24 am

Thanks for the replys everyone. Very useful information CaseTested

. It is a jungle out there. Glad to be learning from very knowledgable collectors.

s-k

PA Knives · Post by **PA Knives** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:12 am

HI!

Just my two cents, Tidioute Cutlery Actually made some knives for the original Standard knife Company. Not that any one really care other than me but I thought you might like to know that.

jonet143 · Post by **jonet143** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:50 pm

here are a couple of kane knives currently on ebay.
i beleive the bone is genuine and the celluoid to be one of parkers.
my point is how are new collectors supposed to know a knife is the real deal or a copy manufactured by the owner of the trademark at the time of manufacture?

item 110047003582
item 130040006549

if someone can post the shortcut, it would bee easier to view.

PA Knives · Post by **PA Knives** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:56 pm

Well, you bring up a good point. One can tell the difference only by experience. Reading the knife is the best place to start. Remember that the originals are now nearly a hundred years old. Look for things that fit that period. I realize that I am being very general but it is the truth. In this case to good to be true is the truly the reason behind not purchasing until someone more knowledgable looks at it. You must know your styles, materails and manufacturing techniques in order to be confident of a fake or not. Most of the Kane knives on ebay at this time are new knives. I do see two that are not and I hope they end up in my collection first.

jonet143 · Post by **jonet143** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:37 pm

i agree with you. but a lot of people are'nt familiar with the criteria of authenticating an old knife. see my earlier post in this forum titled "future knife scams" i have several of parker's lists advertising "museum found parts" and the knives casetested wrote about. when these knives are presented out of context by ignorance or design, imo they become counterfeits by deception. i don't think jim parker meant this to happen.

PA Knives · Post by **PA Knives** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 4:54 pm

Most agreed with your comments. By just grinding of the GERMANY stamp on the other side of the tang, a counterfieter has created a jem. Low cost, easy fix, big profit. The so-called family tree series hasn't done the new comer any favors becuase of this scam. Most of us know the difference now, but a newbie wouldn't and they get bit and the result is a poor taste of a great hobby. EBAY acutally can help. You get to look at vitually hundreds of knives each day if you choose to. You can compare and review, ask questions,but thougths etc. A great opportunity to pick others brains without being there in person. This forum is perfect example of us helping each other out. LOOK at lots of knives, REALLy LOOK and digest, style, handle, colors, pins, materail, blades, location, and LASTLY the stamp. COMPARE COMPARE COMPARE and question. You will soon realize that you can pick up on the little differences that tell you the real knife from the remake or counterfiet. There really isn't any other way to do it. That I know of. This a continual process that never stops. Besides, I love looking at knives again and again.

Guess I didn't help much, but I enjoyed the conversation

PA Knives · Post by **PA Knives** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:34 pm

This is a great example of just what I am talking about. The first is a repro and the second is the real thing. LOOK at them closely and you will learn the differences easily. Nice job

PS. don't bid on the JDC because it really needs to be in my house.

I would love to have this one for my collection.

jonet143 · Post by **jonet143** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:37 pm

thanks for printing the shortcut casetested.and good advice.
wheb i saw the bone kane i thought about you pa. i felt it was original. and don't worry, i won't bid against you. i hope you win it.

jonet143 · Post by **jonet143** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:41 pm

pa thanks for your insight. your experiance enhances our sight. i sometimes ask questions for the purpose of getting reactions and opinions. helps me define my thoughts, and i hope stimulate others to think as well. i hope i don't piss anyone off with my questions and opinions. to me right is right and anything else is wrong.

LC · Post by LC » Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:16 am

CaseTested wrote:
pa knives wrote:This is a great example of just what I am talking about. The first is a repro and the second is the real thing. LOOK at them closely and you will learn the differences easily. Nice job

PS. don't bid on the JDC because it really needs to be in my house.

I would love to have this one for my collection.
@ pa:

I have asked the seller to provide better photos of the real Kane JDC. Let's see if he complies. I would really like to see that tang stamp!
>
>
>

P.S. For those of you who don't know.......a little trivia....

A JDC is a John D. CASE and jt opened immediately in Kane just after Case Brothers closed in Little Valley (also his company). There were actually about 9 or 10 different Case companies operating in that region during that same time period. There was also a John D. Case and Sons Cutlery Co.....Confusing no???

CaseTested I could see were it would get confusing with all those Case Companys

jonet143 · Post by **jonet143** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:18 am

i wrote him and he argued his book. i wrote him again as did someone else and he removed the listing.

PA Knives · Post by **PA Knives** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:06 pm

jonet143 wrote:i wrote him and he argued his book. i wrote him again as did someone else and he removed the listing.

I am a bit confused by this statement. can you clarify for me.

I agree with your comment about asking questions sometimes to stimulate thought process. I am a government manager for a large Township in NW Pa. I often will make comments or ask a question even when I know the answer, just to make the Councilpersons think about a particular situation and how it might effect the future of the community. A technique that I use very often and it works well.

jonet143 · Post by **jonet143** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:19 pm

pa i wrote the seller and informed him the knife was made in the 90s rather than the turn of the century. he wrote back quoting ferguson's guide as to when kane was in business. i then wrote him again and informed of the parker connection and the trvka remakes. he then pulled his listing.

PA Knives · Post by **PA Knives** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 5:26 pm

OK,

Now I understand. I thought that you were referring to the JDC! I see that the other Kane listing is gone now. Good Job. Please continue providing us with your experience, it is wonderful to have people like you on this list.

PA Knives · Post by **PA Knives** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:25 am

HATE IT!

First it isn't the same font. The placement is all wrong and On almost all of the knives I have seen it is like this

UNION RAZOR
Co
TIDIOUTE PA
All in caps

All Secondary blades should be stamped TIDIOUTE.

Hope this helps

Tell me more about this knife, I am curious to learn

PA Knives · Post by **PA Knives** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:52 am

Nice Job,

We should have had this as a separate post. What a great learning tool for newbie's to see. I must admit, I haven't seen one of these knives yet. I shutter to think if someone grinds the germany off and tries to pass it as the original. It also brings up a question about corporate rights. I have looked into obtaining the rights to use the Tidioute name and no one has claimed it yet. I guess this company just did it, figuring who would care. Although I may be wrong, becuase I haven't paid for the full legal search yet.

PA Knives · Post by **PA Knives** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:03 am

Here is a good stamp for Union Razor. Your dating list accurate, but I will be providing some additional information on that in my upcoming book. Hope this helps the new comers. I would like to know your source for the Brown Brothers MFG Tidioute 1897-02. I have them in Little Valley but not in Tidioute. Although the Browns did have thier pocket knives made for them in Tidioute by the original Tidioute Cultery Co. LTD.

I want my book to be as accurate as possible. Thanks for any help that others might supply.

I research the local newspaper from Tidioute for 1905 and 1906 and found several flaws in so-called solid information that is commonly believed. Just goes to show that you can't beleive until you see it for yourself.

El Lobo · Post by **El Lobo** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:29 pm

Ooops, misunderstood the question.

Bill ( Waitng for David's book

)

PA Knives · Post by **PA Knives** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:49 pm

HEY!

I don't beleive that Ka-Bar owns them. I have a meeting with the president on Nov 14, to discuss some of those issues. As for Levine's book. I spoken with him on numerous occasions and two days ago he agreed that some of the infomation that he has and others may not be accurate and that "primary" research as I am doing is the only true way to determine the facts.

Your dates were right, but there are other dates that narrow things down even further. For example. all books say 1909 as the starting date for the second Tidioute Cutlery Co. (by the way, most people do not realize that there were two with the same name, different investor and owners, different tang stamps) The second companies incorporation papers show they started in 1911. The year Union moved to Olean. SOOOOOOOOOO! did they operate for two years prior to that. If so, why isn't anything listed in city directories, newspapers, or other printed materails. makes you wonder.

now you can see the fun I am having in determening just what fact and fiction. "show me the proof" and I will agree.

OK, now your getting to much out of me prior to the book coming out.

Is this just trick to get everything without buying it

I really do appreciate all of you on this forum. Very supportive and a great bunch of very knowledgeable people. I really enjoy digging into this kind of info and getting the truth of all to know.

PS, I do plan on showing some counterfiets in the book. The reason we have them will amaze you. The story is great stuff for knife knuts to know.

All About Pocket Knives

Standard Knife Co

Standard Knife Co

kane knife