KA-BAR Collectors club 1991 help

[muskrat man]

Picked this up, second one i've had, this one stays. But it's got me wondering who actually made it. I don't think ka-bar was making thier own folders during this time. The box says "An Alcas company" so are they who manufactured it? The birdseye maple handles and overall quality has me leaning towards queen. Does anyone know for sure?

[easternknives]

Nice knife Muskrat. I think it was made by Cutco. They have some type of affilliation with Alcas which bought Kabar in 1996.
If my research is correct.
Edit: Woops this knife is dated 1991 so now I'm not so sure. Unless they made some for them before buyin em.

John

[trail]

Somebody was talking about the incestuous relationships between knife manufacturers in another thread. Well get this - Alcas was a joint venture between Alcoa and Case. It was designed to provide a new product - cooking cutlery, branded Cutco - for the Wear-Ever Aluminum Company, itself a subsidiary of Alcoa. Alcas set up a plant in Olean, NY in 1949 and started making cooking cutlery. In 1972 Alcoa bought out Case's share. In 1982 Alcas management bought out the company from Alcoa. In 1996 Alcas bought Ka-Bar. In 2009 Alcas changed it's name to Cutco Corporation. All this is from the Cutco website. It doesn't really address where the folder was made - the Alcas plant in Olean? The Ka-Bar plant? Or a contract manufacturer like Queen?

I am going to guess that the knife is not in its original box since it is a 1991 commemorative and Ka-Bar did not become an Alcas company until 1996.

[muskrat man]

It is in the original box, so apparently the information provided on thier website is incorrect.

[trail]

Interesting and puzzling, to say the least. I admit to being flummoxed by the 1991 knife in an ostensibly 1996 or later box. So allow me to do some speculating.

From the Ka-Bar website, http://www.kabar.com/history.jsp

1982 Cole National Corporation falls into a period of business difficulty that puts the company into bankruptcy. During liquidation the Ka-Bar product line is purchased by American Consumer Products and moved to Solon, Ohio.

May 1996 The Ka-Bar product line and assets are sold to Alcas Corporation of Olean, New York.

June 6, 1996 The acquired assets of Ka-Bar are relocated to Alcas Corporation's Olean headquarters.

Any chance that "1991" commemorative was actually made in 1996?

1975 As a part of its efforts to revive the company, Ka-Bar establishes a special Collectors' Division. Its purpose is to produce significant and commemorative knives, to recreate famous antique Ka-Bar knives and actively support the development and enjoyment of knife collecting in general.

1976 The first knife is produced by the newly formed Collectors Club: a full dress version of the USMC Fighting/Utility knife, produced in limited number.

The company had undergone an earlier bankruptcy in 1961. Ka-Bar underwent a very stormy and tumultuous history of moves, name changes and financial difficulties, if the company website is to be believed.

Perhaps due to the turmoil of bankruptcy and acquisition they missed a few years of commemoratives and then went back and filled them in afterwards, as a quick source of revenue for the new owner. This is just pure speculation on my part.

Any way you look at it, a beautiful knife with a cloudy, enigmatic history. A knife with a story, a collector's dream.

http://www.kabar.com/history.jsp
http://www.alcas.com/history.htm

[johnnierotten]

sure looks like a Queen.

[justold52]

I agree with you Johnnie but one part hurts that feeling.

It's that nail nick and the stamp leters and numbers are not Queens stiyal.

Do you see that on any other Queens knives?

[ddixon]

hey, did anybody ever solve this mystery? I recently picked up the 2004 Ka-bar club knife and it came in the same exact box (except it says CK-04 on the sticker, of course). It's the two blade saddlehorn with a cotton sampler blade as a secondary, with "Tidioute Cutlery" on the back of the tang. The fit/finish on the knife is pretty good. I'm curious to know where these are made.

[deanmm56]

This might clear up the mystery of the 1991 tang stamp ...

Found on " History of Ka-Bar "

Alcas was no stranger to the cutlery business or to KA-BAR. The company had, in fact, manufactured several knives for KA-BAR prior to purchasing the business, including the U.S.M.C. Fighting / Utility Knife. In June 1996, they acquired assets of KA-BAR were relocated to Alcas Corporation's Olean, New York headquarters. Later that year operations were in full swing, with KA-BAR once again manufacturing some of its own knives in Olean through the new parent corporation.

[ddixon]

Just got an idea after seeing this eBay listing:

http://bit.ly/dldF2L



Notice that the box for this knife is the older silver Cole Company style box used by Ka-bar before Alcas bought them, and not the green and gray Alcas box that MM's knife came in. Same knives, different boxes.

Assuming that's the original box for the knife, I'm thinking maybe that Alcas (a Cutco dba?) made the 1991 club knives for Ka-bar in that year, and they were packaged in the silver Cole Company boxes because Ka-bar was a separate company. Then in 1996, when Alcas bought Ka-bar and moved them to Olean, maybe there were still some 1991 club knives that had not yet been distributed, and they were then boxed using the new green Alcas Company box. If so, that would mean the info on the company's website is indeed correct, and it would explain why MM's '91 knife is boxed in a 1996+ style box.

Possible?

[Toejammer]

My CK91 came in the same silver "Cole Consumer Products" box also.

[Ramrod]

A buddy of mine has one with the silver box. He said he bought it new in 91 or 92. That sticker makes me wonder.... Mark