The evolution of knife commerce on eBay

[btrwtr]

In a few days, this coming July forth, will mark my 28th year of being a member on eBay. My how times have changed when it comes to buying and selling knives where eBay is concerned. When I first discovered knife sales on eBay I was amazed. Most all auctions, in spite of any given knife's value, were started at $9.99 or lower and it was left to the bidders to establish the end sale price. There were far more honest old knives for sale, quality and quantity were both many times more than what is seen today. Sure, there were still some counterfeits and altered knives here and there but nowhere near the amount that can be found today. Picture quality and internet speeds then were nowhere near what we enjoy today.

Fast forward 28 years and one of the biggest differences I see is the use of AI descriptions. AI doesn't see handle cracks, condition, determine blade snap or materials used. It can however let us know that nearly all knives are ambidextrous, that they make a great addition to any collection. Having an AI description is somewhat akin to having a blind person describe the knife. Particulars are often added to the AI descriptions but this too can be problematic. Thankfully we can have great quality pictures but there are limits here, as before, as far as what is shown.

A second huge difference is that now most knives are listed with starting or buy-it-now prices that are far above the $9.99 of past years. I am constantly amazed at both the prices being asked and selling prices that I often view as being ridiculously high.

Another big difference I see is that we have changed from a time of when sellers that didn't know much about a particular knife didn't say much about it. Don't know so don't tell in effect. Let the bidders view and determine the value. Now it seems that those that don't know about a knife are all too willing to interject things that many of us know, quite simply, just are not true. Claims about when a knife was made, what the materials are as well as the condition or originality of the knife are too often stated in spite of what the reality is. In some cases, I think I might prefer an AI description rather than see all the false statements.

I am afraid that the hobby of knife collecting is being continually dumbed down and sales on eBay are leading the way. AI descriptions and sellers that don't know but say regardless. Sellers that claim that every common knife they are selling is quite rare and would make a great addition to any collection. There are still some very honest, knowledgeable sellers that do a great job of both describing and photographing the knives they are vending but it seems they are a dying breed.

Good knives can still be found on eBay for decent prices but it "ain't what it used to be" in my opinion.

Please add or comment your perceptions of eBay concerning our hobby.

[Steve Warden]

Ebay - never have, never will. Yes, some good deals can be found, but ever since the beginning I've heard too many stories of buyers not getting what they were told they were bidding on. Bad or misleading descriptions, photos taken that fail to show all sides, not just the good side.

I'll do my knife buying in person, from reputable companies, and/or folks here on AAPK.

But that's me.

[Waukonda]

Ebay - never have, never will.

Same here, I have half a dozen knife shows within an hours drive from me every year, plus an honest dealer who can find me anything I want, no need to gamble with Ebay.

[TripleF]

People know who the good sellers are......and AI makes it CLEAR WHO'S NOT!!!!

[bestgear]

…one of the biggest differences I see is the use of AI descriptions.

I agree Wayne but I’m sure that eBay offered this alternative to allow sellers to generate a description instantly just by snapping a photo or scanning a barcode. Additionally, AI descriptions simplify selling for casual users who might not know how to write a compelling product description or price their items. But above all of that, I suspect that eBay pushes for AI descriptions and intentionally inserts highly searched keywords which help listings rank better in search algorithms.

I’m no longer a seller, browser or buyer on eBay because of the downward evolution over the last quarter century. YMMV

[Mumbleypeg]

I have many good knives that were bought from eBay sellers in the past. I still occasionally browse eBay but have not purchased a knife there in years. It stopped being a useful, buyer-friendly tool when they changed from finding what was specified in the search criteria, to a broad mashup mix of (maybe) somewhat related items. Fewer sellers use the low starting bid method, instead opting for BIN or overinflated starting bid limits.

Coincidentally the current issue of Knife Magazine has an excellent article by Bruce Voyles lamenting the current state of internet knife commerce on Facebook, eBay, etc. Sellers who have no clue what they are selling, yet describe it with authority as if they do know. They shout down and belittle those who have the audacity to question them, sometimes citing A I as their source. (Which of course in their misguided minds makes it infallible). Buyers who believe the loudest “shouter”, paying outrageous sums for knives with bogus descriptions. And the current generational shunning of books in general and reliance instead on the internet (A I). And specifically ignoring those reference books authored by Sargent, Levine, Goins, Ferguson, Parker, Price, etc, who spent decades studying the subject. “Roughly thirty volumes a serious collector could buy used for under fifty dollars a piece that would resolve 90% of the questions asked daily on Facebook by people who plainly have not bothered and are misinformed (or too lazy to go beyond an A I or Google search)”.

Instead “Chat GPT will give them an answer in seconds. The answer will sound authoritative, because the program is designed to sound authoritative. The fact that the program made up” much of the information ……”none of which the user has any way of detecting - is not a bug from his point of view. It is exactly what he wanted. He wanted to sound smart.”

He goes on to conclude “The economic damage is real, borne entirely by the buyer today, but it will be borne by all of us in the future by discouraged collectors leaving the knife game.”

Ken

[treefarmer]

eBay has provided me with a lot of entertainment over the years. I've purchased quite a few knives over those years and have been happy with most transactions. HOKs mostly have gone way up in value to the point I now just look. I'll bid on a knife and let it go, a few times I've been surprised finding that I've won with the low bid.
Several months ago, a Queen I really wanted was up for bids. I made my bid early and was surprised it didn't go above my bid. ($40+/-) After I won the auction, I noticed the knife was still listed on eBay. Made several attempts to contact the seller to no effect. A package arrived from the seller, it contained a Case Peanut not the Queen I won. All sorts of communication with eBay saying problem has been resolved. Seller was supposed to provide a prepaid label to return the Case and a credit was supposed to be issued. Neither has shown up, no label, no credit on my card statement. Navigating eBay's site is not easy for this old man. I get the same responses from the AI answers that normally settle such issues. Only had one actual conversation with a human. $40 ain't going to ruin me but it does aggravate me and the little 6220 isn't one bit interesting!
Just sittin' here with a bad taste in my mouth for eBay!
Treefarmer

[Dinadan]

Ebay has its flaws. It has changed a lot since I made my first buys about 25 years ago. But if it did not exist I would not be a knife collector. I am just not going to scour yard sales and pawn shops for old knives. I have always bought some new knives, but if it were not for Ebay I would probably have about thirty knives instead of ... scores?

I have dealt with hundreds of folks on Ebay over the decades. Mostly revolving around knives, books, fishing reels, and Greco\Roman reproduction wall art: almost all have been honest. Even painstakingly honest, I would say.

My philosophy is that where my hobbies are concerned, I do not spend money that I cannot afford to write off. If I were buying for an investment, I would go to my financial advisor and probably take his advice about stocks. Knives are for fun and I try not to get het up about what I do for fun.

[btrwtr]

Some very valid input from all here. Great and interesting perspectives.

[Gtrclktr-351]

I first wadded into "the Bay" in search of USA made, department store guitars. Deals were plentiful and prices were reasonable. Later, I started looking at knives and deals were plentiful and prices were reasonable. Fast forward to today and USA made, department store guitars all seem to be made of gold or platinum. And even the mass produced, student models are "rare". And most offered are either "wall hangers" and/or firewood. Sadly, the same is true of knives. The difference being there are few, if any, counterfeit guitars and many counterfeit knives, some obvious but many good enough to fool the casual buyer. "The Bay" is somewhere I no longer wish to wade into for guitars nor knives.

[Lansky1]

My (relatively) extensive knife accumulation over the past 10 years or so has been almost exclusively sourced from eBay. I haven't participated nearly as much recently, as the eBay thrill is gone. My frame of reference is used Case knives, not vintage Case's, but post 1980 clean used Case's. I'm confident in stating used Case prices have practically doubled just in one decade. I used to get so many deals on eBay, it was great and really appealed to the bottomfeeder side of me - I haven't gotten what I would consider a bonified deal in several years. I have completely lost interest in paying $65-75 for a nice clean used knife that I'm used to paying $35-45 for not that long ago, just pre-pandemic. I still foot the bill very rarely for something I have to have ... but the dramatic increase in a relatively short time has taken the fun out it completely for me. What confounds me is collectors are not pushing back and are apparently willing to pay the asking prices today - I wish more were like me and just won't do it, which would have a meaningful impact ... I guess supply and demand universally applies regardless of what this old knife curmudgeon thinks

[btrwtr]

I first wadded into "the Bay" in search of USA made, department store guitars. Deals were plentiful and prices were reasonable. Later, I started looking at knives and deals were plentiful and prices were reasonable. Fast forward to today and USA made, department store guitars all seem to be made of gold or platinum. And even the mass produced, student models are "rare". And most offered are either "wall hangers" and/or firewood. Sadly, the same is true of knives. The difference being there are few, if any, counterfeit guitars and many counterfeit knives, some obvious but many good enough to fool the casual buyer. "The Bay" is somewhere I no longer wish to wade into for guitars nor knives.

I like old guitars and owned a nice group of old Silvertone amp-in-case electrics. Haven't paid much attention but just looking at prices now I see what you mean. Unfortunately it seems eBay has evolved to include more than just knives where this change is occurring. Today I bought a sizeable chunk of malachite at a sale. It's raw and real but doing some research about this stone looks like much or most of what is being sold on the Bay isn't the real deal.

[Gtrclktr-351]

What confounds me is collectors are not pushing back and are apparently willing to pay the asking prices today - I wish more were like me and just won't do it, which would have a meaningful impact ... I guess supply and demand universally applies regardless of what this old knife curmudgeon thinks

And as long as it continues, the situation will only worsen. My "activist" side says, "Boycott overpriced knives!"

[bestgear]

And as long as it continues, the situation will only worsen.

For those interested in the subject, the phenomenon serves as a modern example of Tulip Mania or bandwagon economics. Economists and psychologists point to this effect to explain how hype and social proof can distort the perceived value of any collectible item like pocket knives.

Boycotting is the only remedy.

At its peak, Beanie Babies accounted for over 6% of all sales on eBay, with rare first-generation models selling for thousands of dollars. However, the market became flooded with counterfeits and unverified rarity claims. When the bubble finally burst, millions of people were left holding hoards of "investments" that had no actual intrinsic value.

[Dinadan]

At its peak, Beanie Babies accounted for over 6% of all sales on eBay, with rare first-generation models selling for thousands of dollars. However, the market became flooded with counterfeits and unverified rarity claims. When the bubble finally burst, millions of people were left holding hoards of "investments" that had no actual intrinsic value.

That kind of reflects what I was saying about a hobby being for fun and not for profit. If the resale value of my knives goes to zero, that will not really affect my enjoyment of my collection. I do not sell any of my knives anyway, so the drop in the value of knives that I own will not affect me at all. I just hope that if the bubble bursts, I am still around so that I can buy cheap(er) knives.

[bestgear]

.......I am still around so that I can buy cheap(er) knives.

The bandwagon bubble will burst when the upward trend of speculative buying meets a limit in available buyers. The collapse will most likely be triggered by a shift in market psychology (like the new generation of collectors ignoring old school slip joints) or an economic catalyst like a depression.

Other triggers could be when the price of a pocket knife becomes so detached from its intrinsic value that no new buyers are willing to enter the market, collectors decide to "cash out" their gains, flooding the market with sell orders and as prices begin to drop, the fear of losing money outweighs the desire to make it, causing a rush to liquidate assets that plummets prices.

If I'm around when the bubble bursts, I'll probably sit on the sideline watching it evolve and not jump in the pool

[Lansky1]

Interesting discussion fellas ! I never thought much about a knife collecting bubble, but its not unlike any other commodity ... in uncertain times, the bubble may well eventually burst. That would be the golden era for those able to still collect ...

[Gtrclktr-351]

That kind of reflects what I was saying about a hobby being for fun and not for profit. If the resale value of my knives goes to zero, that will not really affect my enjoyment of my collection. I do not sell any of my knives anyway, so the drop in the value of knives that I own will not affect me at all. I just hope that if the bubble bursts, I am still around so that I can buy cheap(er) knives.

I agree 100%. I do not sell knives. In all actuality, the majority of my accumulation/collection is considered "junk" by serious collectors. That's OK by me, I buy what I can afford/what like without much concern for what others think.

[OLDE CUTLER]

That kind of reflects what I was saying about a hobby being for fun and not for profit. If the resale value of my knives goes to zero, that will not really affect my enjoyment of my collection. I do not sell any of my knives anyway, so the drop in the value of knives that I own will not affect me at all. I just hope that if the bubble bursts, I am still around so that I can buy cheap(er) knives.

I agree 100%. I do not sell knives. In all actuality, the majority of my accumulation/collection is considered "junk" by serious collectors. That's OK by me, I buy what I can afford/what like without much concern for what others think.

That is exactly me also. I have only ever bought 2 knives from Ebay and that was many years ago

[QTCut5]

I feel the changes eBay has made to the platform itself have had an impact on knife commerce (and likely many other commodities as well, especially collectibles). I have been buying and selling on eBay for over 20 years, and over the course of that time those changes have significantly changed my knife collecting habits, both buying and selling.

Prior to eBay, my collection was limited to new knives from dealers as I have no access to knife shows, flea markets or shops selling secondhand knives where I live on the Big Island of Hawaii. I had no outlet for selling knives.

When I first started using eBay, knives were cheap and plentiful. For me, it was like being a kid in a candy store with mom's credit card. I was having so much fun bidding on every knife I liked and getting swept up in the competition to "win" the auctions that I really didn't pay much attention to the total amount I was actually committing to pay if I won. In those early years, eBay had a side panel on the screen showing a running total amount of all my bids which I believe was probably intended to prevent people like me from getting in over their head and committing to more in cumulative bids than they could realistically afford. Didn't take eBay long, however, to realize how much potential revenue this feature was likely costing them and it was permanently removed from the site thus making it easier for people with little or no impulse control (like me ) to bid and spend recklessly. I amassed the bulk of my knife collection during those years, a collection I never could have acquired if not for eBay.

Although I did spend an obscene amount of money during my first 15 years on eBay, I also made a good chunk of it back selling the knives I wasn't totally enamored with....sometimes for a small profit, but usually for a bit of a loss. Like Mel and others, my philosophy was to enjoy the hobby, to experience as many interesting knives as I wanted and not to think of it as some kind of financial investment. To me, the buying and selling was more of a fun game that could be endlessly entertaining if not self-sustainable.

All that changed when, for various reasons, government entities realized they were missing out on a vast untapped source of sales tax revenue and decided to define my fun little hobby as a business enterprise if I made more than $650 in sales per year, up from the previous threshold of $30,000, which was far more than I ever made in sales in one year. That change was singularly responsible for the end of my casual and carefree eBay selling days. Once fun, selling has become a headache because of the tax hassle. The end result of this change for me is that I now buy way fewer knives on eBay than I used to and I fully expect I'll stop buying on eBay completely one day very soon. It was fun while it lasted but I'm sure they won't miss me one bit.

[Lansky1]

The end result of this change for me is that I now buy way fewer knives on eBay than I used to and I fully expect I'll stop buying on eBay completely one day very soon. It was fun while it lasted but I'm sure they won't miss me one bit.

I completely concur with your sentiments Q. Ebay was a blast until about when the pandemic started. For some reason still unknown to me, things changed and prices consistently skyrocketed far beyond what would be considered "normal" inflation rates over that time. I think most of us on AAPK are fortunate in that we have amassed our piles of knives and can now make due and enjoy what we have without eBay. I occasionally lament and like to think back to the glory days when we would put in the time and effort to develop our own sniping systems (before the sniper apps) & often get killer deals on nearly new 6375's, 6107's, muskrats, etc. for well under $40 - it was so much fun to come out on top if you could get your bid in at the last 2 seconds. I lost alot of sleep setting my "eBay alarm" and sniping deals late at night. Anyways, all good things must come to an end ... and that's ok

[Tinpanva]

At its peak, Beanie Babies accounted for over 6% of all sales on eBay, with rare first-generation models selling for thousands of dollars. However, the market became flooded with counterfeits and unverified rarity claims. When the bubble finally burst, millions of people were left holding hoards of "investments" that had no actual intrinsic value.

That kind of reflects what I was saying about a hobby being for fun and not for profit. If the resale value of my knives goes to zero, that will not really affect my enjoyment of my collection. I do not sell any of my knives anyway, so the drop in the value of knives that I own will not affect me at all. I just hope that if the bubble bursts, I am still around so that I can buy cheap(er) knives.

This, 100%

[Tinpanva]

The end result of this change for me is that I now buy way fewer knives on eBay than I used to and I fully expect I'll stop buying on eBay completely one day very soon. It was fun while it lasted but I'm sure they won't miss me one bit.

I completely concur with your sentiments Q. Ebay was a blast until about when the pandemic started. For some reason still unknown to me, things changed and prices consistently skyrocketed far beyond what would be considered "normal" inflation rates over that time. I think most of us on AAPK are fortunate in that we have amassed our piles of knives and can now make due and enjoy what we have without eBay. I occasionally lament and like to think back to the glory days when we would put in the time and effort to develop our own sniping systems (before the sniper apps) & often get killer deals on nearly new 6375's, 6107's, muskrats, etc. for well under $40 - it was so much fun to come out on top if you could get your bid in at the last 2 seconds. I lost alot of sleep setting my "eBay alarm" and sniping deals late at night. Anyways, all good things must come to an end ... and that's ok

There’s still a deal or two out there, I picked up a 1920s Remington for 18 bucks just this week, even if it arrives with issues it’s a 18 dollar knife.

https://ebay.io/m/rCHkqg

[Mumbleypeg]

Ebay was a blast until about when the pandemic started. For some reason still unknown to me, things changed and prices consistently skyrocketed far beyond what would be considered "normal" inflation rates over that time.

It’s simply economics. The government increased the supply of money. (The $2.2 Trillion Covid Relief Economic Stimulus Act, aka the CARES Act, passed in 2020, and later supplemented by an additional $900 Billion in 2021). However the supply of goods available did not increase. (In fact due to Covid related supply chain problems the amount of goods available decreased - remember when many states forced companies to close for months?).

More money chasing the same, or fewer goods results in inflation. That’s not politics. It is economics.

Ken

[Dinadan]

It was fun while it lasted but I'm sure they won't miss me one bit.

That was a great commentary, Q.

Probably because I was never a seller on Ebay, I had forgotten about the tax changes. I wonder how many other folks quit selling at that time. You mention bidding on numerous knives at the same time. These days about 95% of knives are Buy It Now. I am not sure when that happened, but it is a change from when I first bought on Ebay. These days I do not even look at at the auctions: if I see something I want I just buy it if the price is reasonable. If it is an auction I leave it for others.

I lost alot of sleep setting my "eBay alarm" and sniping deals late at night. Anyways, all good things must come to an end ... and that's ok

I used to do the sniping too: I had folks get angry and I also got some knives I wanted.

There’s still a deal or two out there, I picked up a 1920s Remington for 18 bucks just this week, even if it arrives with issues it’s a 18 dollar knife.

Ebay has 160,000 pre-owned knives for sale right now. Where else are you going find that? It is still the place to find exactly what you want even if you do not know what you want. I like looking even when I do not find anything I want to buy.

P. S for Q: Good luck on quitting. I have quit Ebay more than once!