Looking for help identifying an old lever-lock automatic knife marked HORSTER ROSTFREI.

[Anton]

Possibly German Solingen or German-market export piece, maybe pre-war or early post-war.

Interesting details:

integrated spring/backspacer/lock assembly

manual riveted construction

hand-fitted brass safety

almost non-magnetic internal mechanism

old lever-lock/picklock style

no markings except blade stamp

Reportedly dug from a WWII battlefield area in Eastern Europe.

Would love to hear opinions from collectors familiar with early European automatics.

[OLDE CUTLER]

Possibly German Solingen or German-market export piece, maybe pre-war or early post-war.

Interesting details:

integrated spring/backspacer/lock assembly

manual riveted construction

hand-fitted brass safety

almost non-magnetic internal mechanism

old lever-lock/picklock style

no markings except blade stamp

Reportedly dug from a WWII battlefield area in Eastern Europe.

Would love to hear opinions from collectors familiar with early European automatics.

Is this some kind of a joke, or is it AI?
I like the usage of the terms "possibly, almost, reportedly".

[1967redrider]

Dug from a battlefield.

[Killgar]

Made in Italy for export to Germany (Horster). German law required that switchblades had blades no more than 8.5 cm long.

It's not a "lever-lock", it's a "swivel bolster". As far as time of production, 1960's or after. Likely after.

[Anton]

probably something was explained to me incorrectly or embellished, this knife was next to a German dagger, maybe it just belonged to a vytyran, it was dug up in the Czech Republic

[Killgar]

assembly, manual adjustment, materials and in principle all factors are similar to the pre-factory period. Asymmetry of some parts, manual clipping, inscription applied manually.
I was given it as a gift, this knife from the site of the excavations of the fighting.
I was interested in the mechanism itself, it is clear that everything was adjusted manually. The mechanism is not quite typical for the sixties as * integrated spring + backspacer + lock;
* old lever-lock/picklock style

You can believe whatever you want, but that knife did not exist until long after WW2 ended. Like I said, 1960's or after. Italian production methods, even in the 1960's were sometimes a bit crude, and their knives were assembled by hand. The highest degree of quality was not always their highest priority, but rather, getting product finished and sold.

[Anton]

I have an extensive collection of knives, I really collect types of steel, not mechanisms, but I have a lot of mechanical ones because of this.
What I, the structure of the mechanism itself seemed strange to me, I have never held such a thing in my hands, it is that the rear spacer, system. lock and spring are all made of one part. The mechanism itself is similar to a swivel bolste, but there are no significant differences, I have a swivel bolste, there is not quite such a structure. Maybe this is an early model, or some kind of intériry

When I was studying the mechanism itself, I came across an 1897 patent by Hermann describing a very similar type of mechanism.

[Killgar]

I have an extensive collection of knives, I really collect types of steel, not mechanisms, but I have a lot of mechanical ones because of this.
What I, the structure of the mechanism itself seemed strange to me, I have never held such a thing in my hands, it is that the rear spacer, system. lock and spring are all made of one part. The mechanism itself is similar to a swivel bolste, but there are no significant differences, I have a swivel bolste, there is not quite such a structure. Maybe this is an early model, or some kind of intériry

The one-piece spring/lock used in Italian stilettos has been used for several decades, and is still used today. The spring/lock pictured below is one that I removed from an Italian stiletto made in the past two or three years.

The older Italian stilettos, 1950's and older, typically used two-piece spring/locks, with the end of the spring set into a slot in the base of the lock. These are commonly referred to as dovetail springs. But this design is still used in modern times. Pic below.

And if I wagered a guess I'd say that your knife was made by a member of the Beltrame family (Italy).


This is a modern one-piece spring-lock.

P1050894.JPG (24.81 KiB) Viewed 614 times

Here is a modern example of a two-piece dovetail spring (middle of the picture).

20579f5ee7cc3f0853f4bd69d52fea08.jpg (10.69 KiB) Viewed 614 times

[Anton]

Thank you very much for the explanation, as I said, I'm more into knife steels and I understand more about mechanisms released after the eighties, I've come across many of them.
Still, an interesting knife, the very fact that it was found in a boot along with a German dagger led me down the wrong path, so now I have another theory of origin, some kind of erased knife was found in a place that was memorable to him, or the hunter and the place simply coincided, hunters in those parts often used old German weapons too.
Or someone simply left it in a boot so that it wouldn't get wet and rot and over the years it would get buried.

Still, your expert opinion is interesting, is the knife interesting in itself?

[Killgar]

I thought I'd post this for you Anton, in case you're interested. It's a picture showing a variety of springs, locks, release mechanisms, and construction methods that the Italians have been using in Italian stilettos since the 1940's (and likely longer than that), up until modern times.

[Killgar]

Thank you very much for the explanation, as I said, I'm more into knife steels and I understand more about mechanisms released after the eighties, I've come across many of them.
Still, an interesting knife, the very fact that it was found in a boot along with a German dagger led me down the wrong path, so now I have another theory of origin, some kind of erased knife was found in a place that was memorable to him, or the hunter and the place simply coincided, hunters in those parts often used old German weapons too.
Or someone simply left it in a boot so that it wouldn't get wet and rot and over the years it would get buried.

Still, your expert opinion is interesting, is the knife interesting in itself?

You're welcome.

The knife is definitely interesting. It's genuine Italian, it's branded, so you know who it was made for and where it was intended to be sold, and I'd say it's several decades old. It's a cool knife .

[Anton]

another one for the collection, such knives are brought to me from countries where they were not produced for some reason.
another stiletto mine came from Dagestan, but according to the markings, the steel is Spanish from the seventies and eighties, maybe even strange, since that steel was used in Spain for the domestic market for cheap knives. It is always interesting how such things get to other corners of the world.
as I pulled this one from the Czech Republic, there is a 19th century Russian saber from Spain, also from the Czech Republic came a Japanese soldier's katana from the Second World War. I need to brush up on my knowledge of stiletto mechanics, since I have not been wrong in the rest of the rules yet

Now I can safely put it with the rest of the knives of that period, if you can tell me the year more precisely, I will be grateful.

[Anton]

interesting fact, this knife has never been sharpened

[Killgar]

another one for the collection, such knives are brought to me from countries where they were not produced for some reason.
another stiletto mine came from Dagestan, but according to the markings, the steel is Spanish from the seventies and eighties, maybe even strange, since that steel was used in Spain for the domestic market for cheap knives. It is always interesting how such things get to other corners of the world.
as I pulled this one from the Czech Republic, there is a 19th century Russian saber from Spain, also from the Czech Republic came a Japanese soldier's katana from the Second World War. I need to brush up on my knowledge of stiletto mechanics, since I have not been wrong in the rest of the rules yet

Now I can safely put it with the rest of the knives of that period, if you can tell me the year more precisely, I will be grateful.

I'm thinking it was made in the 1970's or 80's. I believe Horster went out of business in the mid-1990's, so that narrows it down a bit. I couldn't be any more precise than that.

Other than modern Italian stilettos, which often have unique modern characteristics that can be used to somewhat date them, or knives that actually have the year of production etched on the blade, it's pretty much impossible to tell the exact year a stiletto was made. It can also be just as difficult, or impossible, to identify which company in Italy actually made it. The Italians did not preserve their production records for historical interest. Like I mentioned before, they were/are in it for the money.

Never being sharpened is a plus. It's not unusual for people to make a mess out of a stiletto by trying to sharpen it.

[Anton]

I asked the person who gave it to me, he is 100% sure that the knife belonged to an SS officer. Nothing more. This person is engaged in excavations, the recovery of the household items and tools of soldiers from the Second World War, the restoration of weapons, and this knife was also restored. I believe this, since he works for private collectors who are interested in things from the Second World War and works with museums. So it is very interesting. But, he often buys things from military personnel from their families, so it is possible that the officer purchased the knife after the war. He did not give any more information. Also an interesting fact, from the fifties, wood on the covers and manual clipping were rarely used.

[Killgar]

I asked the person who gave it to me, he is 100% sure that the knife belonged to an SS officer. Nothing more. This person is engaged in excavations, the recovery of the household items and tools of soldiers from the Second World War, the restoration of weapons, and this knife was also restored. I believe this, since he works for private collectors who are interested in things from the Second World War and works with museums. So it is very interesting. But, he often buys things from military personnel from their families, so it is possible that the officer purchased the knife after the war. He did not give any more information. Also an interesting fact, from the fifties, wood on the covers and manual clipping were rarely used.

I believe it was Bill DeShivs who coined the phrase- "Buy the knife, not the story". At least that's who I heard it from. It's good advice.

And in case you are not familiar with such switchblades, here's another piece of advice- If you fire an Italian switchblade too many times in a row you may very likely break the spring. Such knives are not meant to be fired repetitively. My personal policy is no more than three firings in a row, then I let the knife sit for awhile. The stress on the spring from repetitive firing will cause the spring to heat up, which can lead to breakage. Just the same as bending a piece of steel over an over again.

I hope you will be very happy with your knife for many years to come .

[Anton]

from the context of the find, than from the times of the Second World War, according to him, there were still many personal and official things in this place, he doesn't say much, but what he said is already interesting. I trust him, he saw things of that time and he himself lifted it from the place.
The version that this knife is already the curtain of the war, since they haven't had time to use it yet.

[Anton]

I didn't buy it, that's the point, it was given to me as a gift.

[Bill DeShivs]

The knife could have been made in the 1990s, but not before 1970. It is of modern Italian construction. It has not been restored.

I can assure you that it was made WELL after the SS ceased to exist.

[Anton]

It's hard to believe in the seventies, the star is too archaic and everything is assembled manually, plus the handle is made of wood and not horn or plastic and there are many details that indicate a preindustrial era

[button_man]

.
The specific type of wood seems like a big clue!
Looks like rosewood. Starting in the late 1960s this became a very popular choice for folding knives;
but I have never seen a knife from earlier decades with rosewood. I'm certainly no expert, and I'm not saying it's impossible.... but I've never seen one.

The 'guards' don't seem to match the rest of the knife -- too thin, pointy, and dramatically swept. My first thought was to wonder if they had originally belonged to a different knife, and added to this one....?
.

[Anton]

The knife is completely in original condition, the guard is soldered as I understand it from the traces, another interesting fact is that it is brass everywhere and not steel

[Bill DeShivs]

The knife is quite simply a modern Italian stiletto made in the 1970s for export to Germany to be sold by Horster.
Italian stilettos are still constructed in this manner today, except the guards/bolsters are no longer soldered.
The finger guards are original to the knife. The handle metal being all brass is not significant.
No matter how badly you want this knife to be something else, these are facts.
Pre-1950 stilettos used completely different construction.

[doglegg]

The knife is quite simply a modern Italian stiletto made in the 1970s for export to Germany to be sold by Horster.
Italian stilettos are still constructed in this manner today, except the guards/bolsters are no longer soldered.
The finger guards are original to the knife. The handle metal being all brass is not significant.
No matter how badly you want this knife to be something else, these are facts.
Pre-1950 stilettos used completely different construction.

I am always amazed at your knowledge. Thank you.

[OLDE CUTLER]

Bill is reading the knife, not the story.