Searching for bone handled pocketknives on eBay

[btrwtr]

I have always preferred to collect the older pre-1970 pocketknives that were handled in natural materials such as bone, stag, mother of pearl or wood. It's amazing to me that doing an eBay search in vintage pocketknives, specifically for bone, that about one third of the results are readily recognized as not being bone at all. This is a trend that seems to be gaining momentum. Is this trend a product of wishful thinking, ignorance or both? I know that eBay will prompt a seller to identify the handle material but I would think if a seller doesn't know what the handles are that they would not include this in the description.

Recently I saw an eBay Case brand pocketknife that was Identified as being bone handled but was actually delrin and the listing was getting some rather high bids. I thought this was likely a seller that was unaware the knife was delrin so I messaged the seller and told them the knife was handled in synthetic delrin. The seller replied and told me the listing was correct because the material was actually bone-delrin. Since then, I have seen a number of eBay knives being described as being handled in delrin-bone or bone-delrin. In my mind it can be delrin or bone but not both. I wonder is this description, though now rather isolated, another developing trend?

I would hope in many Cases that these knives that are being improperly described by sellers a being purchased buy buyers that know what they are actually getting. At the same time, I also think that many buyers are unaware and are paying for what the knife is incorrectly described as being.

As always, buyer beware, especially when buying on eBay.

[Sharpnshinyknives]

You are right Wayne. The knife descriptions on eBay are getting worse, especially if the seller is relying on AI to write it for them. Sometimes the sellers ignorance can work in your favor if they are selling a knife with mammoth ivory handles that they describe as bone, or they say it’s plastic when it’s bone. I’ve seen both many times. I do hope the buyers are aware. If they aren’t, then they have a good case for a refund even if the seller doesn’t take returns.

[Mumbleypeg]

Unfortunately today’s sellers and buyers are both ignorant. The terminology used is distorted to cover for that ignorance. If you can’t tell the difference between bone and Delrin (easily done if one wishes to do so) then just cover it up by inventing a term, like “bone-Delrin”, etc. Rather than take the time (and modest effort) to learn the correct terminology, the vocabulary changes to cover up the ignorance. AI just accelerates it - AI doesn’t know the difference either - “garbage in, garbage out”.

It’s probably nothing new though. Where/how did terms like “greenbone”, “half whittler”, etc originate? And that was even before Al Gore invented the Internet!

Ken

[OLDE CUTLER]

Just some more ignorant scammers at work.

[Rookie]

I believe this is occurring more and more often due to a number of reasons.
1. eBay AI generated titles/descriptions. It's going to be a long time (never) before AI can tell the difference between jigged bone and jigged delrin based on seller photos.
2. Higher inflation right now, there are more and more people trying to turn a quick buck by buying items from flea markets and antique stores, and trying to resell them on eBay.
3. Sellers who just don't care. Pre-Covid there used to be 4-5 Facebook knife sellers who had weekly sales, and usually they were quite unspecific with their descriptions. In the past 3 years, I bet that number is now over 100. And so the same applies to eBay. Sellers just list anything they think will get bidders, and cross their fingers that the buyer doesn't complain.
4. A lot of people just don't know the difference in what they are selling. To the untrained eye, all handles look the same on a pocketknife.

My advice, especially when buying on eBay, is "buyer beware". And even more so when looking at Case knives. The number of fakes is really off-putting.

[Modern Slip Joints]

While I had not noticed “bone-Delrin” before, stag-bone is a well intrenched term. I often see variations of stag-bone advertised as stag, even on AAPK. I suspect most of those ads are attempts at fraud that the seller can squirm out from under by claiming ignorance. The world was a better place without “bone-Delrin” but I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

[Steve Warden]

ebay - I never have, never will. From what I read, this thread only one of so many others like it, it's only getting worse.
I haven't bought a lot of used knives, but most of those came from AAPK store trusted members. A few others from antique markets where I was able to hold the knives in hand.
I'm not a collector, per se, but an accumulator, buying mostly new from trusted sites.
For me, ebay is just too big a risk.

[Mumbleypeg]

While I had not noticed “bone-Delrin” before, stag-bone is a well intrenched term. I often see variations of stag-bone advertised as stag, even on AAPK. I suspect most of those ads are attempts at fraud that the seller can squirm out from under by claiming ignorance. The world was a better place without “bone-Delrin” but I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

Nothing new in that regard. . Old cutlery catalogs often used terms like “stag”, “bone stag”, etc when the material is actually jigged bone. Usually there is a glossary table in the front, or back pages of the catalog explaining the terms. Remington is a good example - in their catalogs they called jigged bone “stag”, and actual stag was called “genuine stag”. Winchester was similar.

I guess the intent is open to interpretation. As with most things, caveat emptor.

Ken

Winchester catalog cut showing “stag” handle covers

[Dinadan]

I buy off Ebay regularly, and I am sure there is plenty of intent to deceive on Ebay. But when it comes to something a bit obscure like a knife handle, I expect to have to figure it out myself. As an analogy, if I am at the flea market and vendor has a bunch of knives laid out: am I going to ask "What is this handle made of?" and expect an accurate answer? If the guy had a degree in industrial materials he probably would not be selling second hand knives. It does seem to me that more Case knives are described wrong than any other, but that could partly be me being wrong.

[Modern Slip Joints]

Nothing new in that regard. . Old cutlery catalogs [...]

Ken

I was familiar with Case 6.5 Bone Stag, Rough Ryder Stag Bone and others but had no idea the term was used pre-WW-II. Thank-you for posting Remington and Winchester's naming their bone handles stag.

In on line pictures I can more easily distinguish stag from stag bone than Delrin from bone. Usually which is which is obvious but dark pictures can make it hard to tell Delrin from bone. I was confident that I would not mistake Delrin for bone on a knife in hand until I did just that in the the poor light in a pawn shop a couple weeks ago. I bought a 6344 thinking its Delrin was bone. Oh well. I could not have said no to a minty 1978 Stockman with great snap and blades that do not touch each other or touch the liners anyway. Squandering needed money was not my fault. The snap made me do it. (B.T.W., it's spearmint.)

[scottrrobin]

The bone - delrin guy is the same one that has the 1970's knife with a lightening S.

[btrwtr]

Great input by all. Looks like AAPK'ers are well aware of the pitfalls of eBay shopping. Seems as time moves on the older ways of describing and honesty are quickly eroding. People are cheated on a daily basis and eBay gets their fees all the same.

Has anyone noticed how hard eBay has now made it to complain about fraudulent listings?

[Rookie]

I sold a few knives on ebay, and the first thing I wrote was "This is a real description by me on the condition of this knife. This is not an AI description."

[btrwtr]

I sold a few knives on ebay, and the first thing I wrote was "This is a real description by me on the condition of this knife. This is not an AI description."

Separates the real from the bogus. Hard to understand why people use this AI drivel.

[FRJ]

Has anyone noticed how hard eBay has now made it to complain about fraudulent listings?

I may as well have been talking to the outhouse door.

[Sharpnshinyknives]

Great input by all. Looks like AAPK'ers are well aware of the pitfalls of eBay shopping. Seems as time moves on the older ways of describing and honesty are quickly eroding. People are cheated on a daily basis and eBay gets their fees all the same.

Has anyone noticed how hard eBay has now made it to complain about fraudulent listings?

Yes! I reported several fake Moki’s a few weeks ago from someone selling in Morocco. I got back from their AI that there was nothing wrong with the knives and the report was closed. They are still listed. If eBay is relying on AI for these decisions then reporting counterfeits is pointless. If AI can’t get a description correct, how then can it be counted on to police counterfeits?

[btrwtr]

Very interesting but not surprising. It is all too convenient for eBay to not police or acknowledge any fraudulent liistings. They are not experts on knives or anything else and that is the most profitable stance for them to take.

I can’t even find a path to report a listing now.