Celluloid knife handles.

[PA Knives]

I always store my celluloid handled knives separtely, but I have one that is starting to act up. Should I get it away from the other celluloids? Should I figure that it is going to be junk soon? Can I stop it? I have noticed that the blade is pitting where it is exposed on this pocket knife. It is very old and dear to me but should I get rid of it before it does more damage? I am concerned about this. Please give me your thought and suggestions.

[El Lobo]

My thoughts,

I would definitely separate that knife from any others....

I don't know if you have read this article, but here is a link.....

http://www.oregonknifeclub.org/celluloid_02.html

If you have, maybe others haven't, and will enjoy or learn from the read.

I am not giving advice here, just relating something I decided to do......
I bought a cracked ice celluloid Royal brand (last made in 1954, I believe) Jack pattern, for $7, because it was interesting. The celluloid was beginning to deteriorate and was turning the edges orange, and beginning to pit the blades. Sooooo, I decided to experiment.
1. I hand polished and polished the scales....and polished some more, with Flitz. I know there are other polishes, but I believe Flitz can even be used for resin clearcoat....so that was my choice. Not too fast, because that can burn/break down the celluloid, as you probably know. EVENTUALLY, I got all the orange off and the scales looked pretty good.
2. Then, I cleaned the blades with alcohol, and took turns putting a patina on them by sticking them in a lemon for about an hour each.

I can't say why, but that was 18 months ago, and the knife looks just the same.....with no further deterioration. Not making any claims, don't know why.. : :
I realize that might fly in the face of collector's judgement, ( do we have any judgement??), but I still have the knife to use, so far.

Sorry for the long winded post....you know, ask for the time.....I tell you how to build a watch. Whatever.....

If that's not for you, pardner, maybe put in in a small baggie with a couple tiny holes, to let it "gas out".......and see what happens.

Hope it works out OK for you.

Bill

[Bryan]

Hi PA,

That is a tough one... I have heard that heat and/or sunlight can accelerate the breakdown process. I haven't heard of a way to stop it either. Hopefully, someone else knows how…??? Maybe putting it in a dark cold place (freazer) would put it in remission? I doubt it, but it may be worth a try.
If the knife is extra special, I would consider having the handles removed (keep them of course) and maybe put on some replacement plastic of some sort. That sounds like a bad idea, but it may save the metal parts…

Bryan

[Bryan]

Bill, I think we both replied to this post at the EXACT same time.

I'm looking forward to reading the link that you provided.

Bryan

[PA Knives]

I gotta tell, this a prime example of why I enjoy these forums. What a wealth of information this article is. I have six antique Pennsylvania knives that I am positive are celluloid. I have kept them together in a cardboard/clear plastic display,stored in my knife closet. Yes I have a knife closet. I call it that. Actually it is my own little cupboard that my wife allows me to use for my very own. That's where I keep MY stuff. She gets the rest of the house h aha ha ha. Any way, I will separte those knives and store them individually. Only one is showing signs, unfortunately this company only made this type of knife and to get rid of it and by another would be useless. They all will erode from the sounds of it. Although it may make them even more valuable in the future as examples fade from view, or it may ruin the market and no one may want to have it.??????
thanks

[straybulletbmc]

I'D HAVE THE HANDLES REMOVED AND THE STEEL CLEANED UP THEN HAVE SOME QUALITY IVORY PUT BACK ON AND HAVE IT SCHIMMED BY A GOOD ARTIST....MIGHT COST A LIL BUT A SPECIAL KNIFE IS JUST THAT TO THE OWNER....AND IT'S WORTH IT. JMO

[tvic]

Because I’m looking at some celluloid knives from around 2000, I wondered if there may be a difference in celluloid today rather than in the past. This is what I found…
“Modern "celluloid" knife handles are usually made of stable acrylic or other engineered plastics, which are vastly different from vintage celluloid. Genuine vintage celluloid is chemically unstable, flammable, and deteriorates over time, whereas modern alternatives are durable and safe.”

Any thoughts and/or experience with “modern” celluloid?

[glennbad]

Because I’m looking at some celluloid knives from around 2000, I wondered if there may be a difference in celluloid today rather than in the past. This is what I found…
“Modern "celluloid" knife handles are usually made of stable acrylic or other engineered plastics, which are vastly different from vintage celluloid. Genuine vintage celluloid is chemically unstable, flammable, and deteriorates over time, whereas modern alternatives are durable and safe.”

Any thoughts and/or experience with “modern” celluloid?

I don't consider acrylic or other engineered plastics to be celluloid, but maybe that's just me. I haven't found acrylic, delrin, kirinite, etc, to be volatile, but celluloid handles as whole, I consider all of them to be suspect. Modern celluloid like was used on Fighting Rooster knives I think may be more volatile than the majority of vintage celluloid. And although there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to when cell handles will go, certain colors or composites were more stable than others...

[Dinadan]

Because I’m looking at some celluloid knives from around 2000, I wondered if there may be a difference in celluloid today rather than in the past. This is what I found…
“Modern "celluloid" knife handles are usually made of stable acrylic or other engineered plastics, which are vastly different from vintage celluloid. Genuine vintage celluloid is chemically unstable, flammable, and deteriorates over time, whereas modern alternatives are durable and safe.”

Any thoughts and/or experience with “modern” celluloid?

I consider Fight'n Rooster, Winchester, and Bulldog brand knives to be modern. In my personal experience and from looking at many of them on Ebay, they are a lot worse about outgassing than knives from before 1940. But there is a possibility that that those old knives just corroded away before my time, and that could explain why I think the knives made after 1980 are worse.

[tvic]

Maybe I should have said what knives I was talking about from the beginning - sorry. The 2001 and 2002 Remington Bullet knives have celluloid handles. I know both were made by Camillus. So, of course, I’ve wondered if these knives would potentially have the same issues as older celluloid knives.

[Rookie]

I'll echo what Glenn and Mel have said, the newer celluloid seems to be the worst of the worst. Stuff from 1980 and newer is much more prone to outgassing than the old pre WW2 stuff.

[Mumbleypeg]

“Modern "celluloid" knife handles are usually made of stable acrylic or other engineered plastics, which are vastly different from vintage celluloid. Genuine vintage celluloid is chemically unstable, flammable, and deteriorates over time, whereas modern alternatives are durable and safe.”

It’s either celluloid, or it’s not. Knife handles made of stable acrylic or other engineered plastics are not celluloid. Just because it may visually look similar to celluloid, it’s still not celluloid.

The Camillus made Remington reproductions from early 2000s are probably celluloid. Unless someone here knows otherwise I’d treat them as if they’re celluloid.

Ken

[tvic]

Thanks, guys. I’ve avoided those two Remingtons for years. I suppose I’ll keep on avoiding them.

[Froe]

I’ve found Remington and Challenge celluloid to be pretty stable in general. Other American makers are hit or miss. But German celluloid is definitely not trustworthy in my worthless opinion. If it’s going, I’d remove the scales and save the rest of the knife. But definitely remove it from other celluloids. I’ve always suspected they can chain react.
My 2 cents.
Froe

[Mumbleypeg]

Thanks, guys. I’ve avoided those two Remingtons for years. I suppose I’ll keep on avoiding them.

I never walk across a street. That way I'm sure not to get run over by a car.

Ken

[royal0014]

It’s either celluloid, or it’s not. Knife handles made of stable acrylic or other engineered plastics are not celluloid. Just because it may visually look similar to celluloid, it’s still not celluloid.
Ken

Absolutely !! Most common handle materials are a version of acrylic, just with different names.
Much like 'all' bandages are Bandaids or 'all' tissues are Kleenex . . .

[Dinadan]

It’s either celluloid, or it’s not. Knife handles made of stable acrylic or other engineered plastics are not celluloid. Just because it may visually look similar to celluloid, it’s still not celluloid.
Ken

Absolutely !! Most common handle materials are a version of acrylic, just with different names.
Much like 'all' bandages are Bandaids or 'all' tissues are Kleenex . . .

Most spiders are not Black Widows or Brown Recluses. But since I am not an arachnologist I treat every spider as venomous. Likewise, since I am not a chemist I treat anything that looks like celluloid as celluloid.

On a slightly different tangent, just because a material is not celluloid does not mean that it will not break down over time. Think of all the old black plastic handles that have shrunk. At least they are not corrosive, as far as I know, but but the knives are pretty much junk until they are rehandled. When a company brings a new product to market, say a stable acrylic, have they let it sit for a few decades to see what happens?

[knife7knut]

Virtually EVERY plastic over time degrades due to exposure to sunlight, heat, solvents,etc. There is only ONE that l know of that does not; polypropylene. It is resistant to acid, does not give off fumes, and is great for food storage containers. It is also why Case used it to hamdle their original Astronaut knife. Not sure if it was used on the later models.
I believe it only is made in white as is not color receptive.
A side story: When l bought my 1st new car in ?1982, a black Mustang GT, I noticed the inside of the windshield would get covered with what looked like cigarette smoke residue. As no one smoked in the car, this was very puzzling.
It turned out that the vinyl dashboard cover was outgassing due to heat(black car,closed windows, August). Applying Armor all seemed to make it worse! Parking in the shade and leaving the windows open helped. I had the cleanest windshield in town!

[bighomer]

Although in it natural state it is a milky translucent it readily takes color pigments. Typar" which at one time I work in the production of"is melted polypropylene sprayed on a belt and put on big rolls it is use for many things such a a house wrap and landscaping. Our endproduct was gray to black. One of it disadvantages is poor uv resistance

[edge213]

I'm not afraid of celluloid!
Just some of mine.

[edgy46]

I'm not afraid of celluloid!
Just some of mine.

Beautiful You are a brave man

[FRJ]

I'm not afraid of celluloid!
Just some of mine.

That is really a nice bunch of knives.
I love that old celluloid.

[edge213]

Thanks Bill and Joe

[Mumbleypeg]

I'm not afraid of celluloid!
Just some of mine.

I like it! I never let mine associate with each other though.

Ken

[Miller Bro's]

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