Half Knives

[btrwtr]

Not sure why but it seems that there are lot of half knives listed on eBay and everywhere else there is a knife population. Although there are so many listed as such, I can't say that I have ever actually seen a half knife. Many half whittlers and half congress knives exist in print but I have never seen a true example.

Being a long-time collector and old school in that respect I don't really believe in half knives. It's either a full knife or not. A knife can be damaged or broken and missing a blade but that still doesn't make it a half knife. I suppose you could cut a knife into two perfectly equal pieces but then you really wouldn't have much of a knife at all.

Whittlers are normally accepted to be three blade knives with the master blade on one end resting on two back springs and two smaller blades in the opposite end each resting on one spring. Given this, what does a half whittler look like? Does it have one and one-half blades resting on one and one-half springs and half of a frame? I would venture that it either is a whittler or not a whittler and that half whittlers don't really exist. I do think that this term may have been used in some company advertising at one time but that does not make this term universally acceptable for any two bladed knives.

Congress knives are defined simply by the shape of the frame being crescent curved and having a sheepsfoot master blade. Congress knives can normally have two or more blades with as many as eight and possibly more in the curved frame. There are two blade congress knives, congress jack knives and even congress whittler knives. So, given this, what does a half congress knife look like? It is either a congress pattern or it is not. Again, I do think that this term may have been used in some company advertising at one time but that does not make it universally acceptable for congress pattern knives to become half knives.

I have recently seen knives on eBay listed as a half stockman patterns and there are currently 23 half stockman knives listed on eBay. Just like the half whittlers and half congress knives I don't think I have ever seen a true half stockman knife. It may just be a matter of time before we start to see half cattle pattern knives listed on eBay.

I say all this because I am pretty much a student of what Bernard Levine defines each knife pattern to be. He doesn't have any half knives in his books as far as I am aware of. No half whittlers and no half congress knives. He even shows a two-blade congress pattern in his LG4 book as an example of the congress. He calls it a Congress knife and has no half congress knives listed.

It seems as the hobby of knife collecting evolves our lines of definition get more and more blurred. Not everyone that has a knife knows what their knife's pattern is but as collectors we should try to learn what each pattern is called and to use the terms correctly. I have collected many knives over the years but can't say that I have ever owned any half knives.

[edge213]

Not sure why but it seems that there are lot of half knives listed on eBay and everywhere else there is a knife population. Although there are so many listed as such, I can't say that I have ever actually seen a half knife. Many half whittlers and half congress knives exist in print but I have never seen a true example.

Being a long-time collector and old school in that respect I don't really believe in half knives. It's either a full knife or not. A knife can be damaged or broken and missing a blade but that still doesn't make it a half knife. I suppose you could cut a knife into two perfectly equal pieces but then you really wouldn't have much of a knife at all.

Whittlers are normally accepted to be three blade knives with the master blade on one end resting on two back springs and two smaller blades in the opposite end each resting on one spring. Given this, what does a half whittler look like? Does it have one and one-half blades resting on one and one-half springs and half of a frame? I would venture that it either is a whittler or not a whittler and that half whittlers don't really exist. I do think that this term may have been used in some company advertising at one time but that does not make this term universally acceptable for any two bladed knives.

Congress knives are defined simply by the shape of the frame being crescent curved and having a sheepsfoot master blade. Congress knives can normally have two or more blades with as many as eight and possibly more in the curved frame. There are two blade congress knives, congress jack knives and even congress whittler knives. So, given this, what does a half congress knife look like? It is either a congress pattern or it is not. Again, I do think that this term may have been used in some company advertising at one time but that does not make it universally acceptable for congress pattern knives to become half knives.

I have recently seen knives on eBay listed as a half stockman patterns and there are currently 23 half stockman knives listed on eBay. Just like the half whittlers and half congress knives I don't think I have ever seen a true half stockman knife. It may just be a matter of time before we start to see half cattle pattern knives listed on eBay.

I say all this because I am pretty much a student of what Bernard Levine defines each knife pattern to be. He doesn't have any half knives in his books as far as I am aware of. No half whittlers and no half congress knives. He even shows a two-blade congress pattern in his LG4 book as an example of the congress. He calls it a Congress knife and has no half congress knives listed.

It seems as the hobby of knife collecting evolves our lines of definition get more and more blurred. Not everyone that has a knife knows what their knife's pattern is but as collectors we should try to learn what each pattern is called and to use the terms correctly. I have collected many knives over the years but can't say that I have ever owned any half knives.

I agree 100% with what you say.

[1967redrider]

Half Stockman is a new one on me. I do have a Case Half Whittler and a few Remington and Fight'N Rooster Half Congresses.

[OLDE CUTLER]

I have a couple of half Congress, which means instead of having 4 blades, it has 2. I have no explaination for the others.

[knife7knut]

Then l guess a 6 blade congress would be a, "congress and a half" and an 8 blade a "double congress". Then following that logic, a 4 blade rtockman could be referred to as a,"stockman and a quarter" and a 5 blade as a,"stockman and a half". Why not just drop the fractions altogether and revert to simple names? Just, LEAVE THE MATH OUT OF KNIVES!

[1967redrider]

And would a Half Canittler just be a Canoe? Asking for a friend.

[orvet]

Perhaps a half congress knife is be one that is all Democrat or all Republican?

[1967redrider]

Perhaps a half congress knife is be one that is all Democrat or all Republican?

I had a slightly different take on the "half" part, Dale.

[bighomer]

Here's a photo of a Frank Buster 12 blade fighting Rooster congress pattern, so I'm guessing a half congress has 6 blades, I have two congress 3 blade whittlers should call I call them two thirds congress?
I'm with Wayne ain't no such thing, but they be yore knives call'em and use them as you see fit.

[Mumbleypeg]

Having collected and studied pocket knives since the later 1960s, my recollection is those “half-“ terms originated with collectors in the 1970s. Originally there was the “half-whittler”, which never made any sense to me anyway because a whittler has three blades. So does a half-whittler have 1-1/2 blades? Cutlery company catalogs historically called the pattern a “pen” knife”.

I have read that at some point Case marketing adopted the term and started calling it a “half-whittler” in their catalog (Case still called the 6208 a “pen knife” as recent as their 1981 catalog, and the 6269 two-blade Congress was also a “pen”). “Half- whittler” was a well understood term in the collector world several years before that, but early and mid-1970s sales flyers oriented to collectors from James Parker, James Frost and others listed the 08 pattern as a pen knife, not a “half-whittler”.

I never heard of a “half-congress” until a few years ago. Relative to “half-whittler” it’s a newer term. “Half-stockman” is even newer - possibly an EBay concoction.

I agree with Wayne but vocabulary seems to change more with the popularity of social media, on-line marketing, and more new collectors involved in the hobby who don’t know (or care) about the old norms. Regardless whether we agree I think we know what they’re describing.

Ken

[danno50]

Very well said, Wayne. The "half" designation has always bugged me as well. As Ken said, what people call a half whittler is a pen knife.

[Reverand]

I agree. Some collectors and some knife companies have adopted the term just to stand out from the crowd, I believe.
I accept the terms when I see them, but I don't use them myself.

Although I HAVE had some German Celluloid knives that became "half knives", like you said they aren't really a knife anymore!

[FRJ]

I agree with you, Wayne. I'm glad to see this post.
I have never liked the "half" description but I'm afraid it won't go away.
Great post.

[edge213]

I have a couple of half Congress, which means instead of having 4 blades, it has 2. I have no explaination for the others.

It's not a "half" congress.
It's a 2 bladed congress.
Congress is the frame shape.

[knife7knut]

Would this be a, "quintuple trapper" ?

[Modern Slip Joints]

I believe it is best for collectors to use the name that the manufacturer used at the time the collector item was made. If Case has sold two blade knives as half what evers then it is best for collectors to call them that. Similar two blade knives that Case named pen knives at an earlier time are best called pen knives. The name it is best for collectors to use depends on when the knife was made.

I have three spring Case 6308W and 6347W three blade knives that have one master and two short blades in their left ends. Their box end labels are printed Whittler. They are economy whittlers, similar to three spring Buck Whittlers. The Camillus Model 72 is a stockman by most peoples' definition of a stockman, a master on one spring and two short blades on opposite ends of a second spring. While I do not like it, Camillus named their Model 72 a Whittler. I am not going to tell Model 72 collectors that their favorite knife is not what its manufacturer named it. I silently refuse to call them whittlers. I do not call them stockmans out loud. I just call them 72s.

Benard Levine used the best names for knives made during the time periods he was interested in. If you want to march on down to the Case factory and order them to use names from an early time period, best of luck to you. I let time march on.

[royal0014]

Bunch of picky, tight-a** knife snobs . . . .






I say this in jest, but just wait, someone will be greatly offended

[FRJ]

Bunch of picky, tight-a** knife snobs . . . .






I say this in jest, but just wait, someone will be greatly offended

I'm not offended, Chris.
But I will remain Picky.

[OLDE CUTLER]

I have a couple of half Congress, which means instead of having 4 blades, it has 2. I have no explaination for the others.

It's not a "half" congress.
It's a 2 bladed congress.
Congress is the frame shape.

Sorry, I was just using common sense because 4 divided in half equals 2. I should not have done that when it comes to knife nomenclature. lol

[edge213]

I have a couple of half Congress, which means instead of having 4 blades, it has 2. I have no explaination for the others.

It's not a "half" congress.
It's a 2 bladed congress.
Congress is the frame shape.

Sorry, I was just using common sense because 4 divided in half equals 2. I should not have done that when it comes to knife nomenclature. lol

[peanut740]

Not sure why but it seems that there are lot of half knives listed on eBay and everywhere else there is a knife population. Although there are so many listed as such, I can't say that I have ever actually seen a half knife. Many half whittlers and half congress knives exist in print but I have never seen a true example.

Being a long-time collector and old school in that respect I don't really believe in half knives. It's either a full knife or not. A knife can be damaged or broken and missing a blade but that still doesn't make it a half knife. I suppose you could cut a knife into two perfectly equal pieces but then you really wouldn't have much of a knife at all.

Whittlers are normally accepted to be three blade knives with the master blade on one end resting on two back springs and two smaller blades in the opposite end each resting on one spring. Given this, what does a half whittler look like? Does it have one and one-half blades resting on one and one-half springs and half of a frame? I would venture that it either is a whittler or not a whittler and that half whittlers don't really exist. I do think that this term may have been used in some company advertising at one time but that does not make this term universally acceptable for any two bladed knives.

Congress knives are defined simply by the shape of the frame being crescent curved and having a sheepsfoot master blade. Congress knives can normally have two or more blades with as many as eight and possibly more in the curved frame. There are two blade congress knives, congress jack knives and even congress whittler knives. So, given this, what does a half congress knife look like? It is either a congress pattern or it is not. Again, I do think that this term may have been used in some company advertising at one time but that does not make it universally acceptable for congress pattern knives to become half knives.

I have recently seen knives on eBay listed as a half stockman patterns and there are currently 23 half stockman knives listed on eBay. Just like the half whittlers and half congress knives I don't think I have ever seen a true half stockman knife. It may just be a matter of time before we start to see half cattle pattern knives listed on eBay.

I say all this because I am pretty much a student of what Bernard Levine defines each knife pattern to be. He doesn't have any half knives in his books as far as I am aware of. No half whittlers and no half congress knives. He even shows a two-blade congress pattern in his LG4 book as an example of the congress. He calls it a Congress knife and has no half congress knives listed.

It seems as the hobby of knife collecting evolves our lines of definition get more and more blurred. Not everyone that has a knife knows what their knife's pattern is but as collectors we should try to learn what each pattern is called and to use the terms correctly. I have collected many knives over the years but can't say that I have ever owned any half knives.

I wouldn't use the term half stockman, but 2 blade stockman, yes.

[Dinadan]

I have read this thread with considerable interest. The OP, Wayne, makes good points about knife nomenclature. I rather admire his determination in defending both the language and the logic of our hobby. I think he is kind of like Horatius standing alone on the bridge as the enemy horde rolls over him like a tsunami. Ave atque vale: defender of linguistic history and precision! Just because the battle is already lost does not mean you should stop fighting.

For my part, I am okay with some usages of the term half. If a company makes a four blade swayback knife and calls it a congress, fine. If the company then decides to make a two blade version of the same knife and call it a half congress, I can see the logic of that usage even it it is technically incorrect. Where whittlers are concerned, there is no logic in removing one blade of a three blade knife and calling it a half whittler ...

There have been times in my life where I expressed unhappiness with the way the language, among many other things, is changing. My daughter suggested that maybe I was a relic of a bygone millennium and should just accept that things have changed since 1975. I think that evolving knife terminology might be one of the things that I have to learn to live with.

[Jeepergeo]

If a Congress is the House and Senate, then perhaps a half-Congress is just the House.

[knife-nut]

I always thought the usage of Half congress or half whittler was not right. Its kind of silly to me.

[Mumbleypeg]

Just to show how silly the whole thing is, do you call this a whittler, or a 3/4 Congress?

Ken