Authenticity of Materials

[tughillbrookie]

Has anyone ever had one of their knives tested to ensure the authenticity of the handle material? i.e. Mammoth ivory, giraffe bone, camel bone? Are we to take the company at their word that they are supplying authentic natural materials? Especially with the premium we are paying retail, not to mention re-sale. Thanks!

[Railsplitter]

Interesting questions. I have never really suspected that those materials might not be what they say they are but wouldn’t that be a hoot if somebody discovered that they aren’t?

All of those materials that you mentioned look generally the same from different dealers and in different brands of knives which leads me to believe that they are legitimate.

I have also seen those materials for sale at knife shows in their unprocessed state and those look the same too. If somebody is faking the material then they’ve pretty much got the monopoly on it.

[bestgear]

Has anyone ever had one of their knives tested to ensure the authenticity of the handle material?

I have a knife with Oosik covers (Fossilized Walrus Penis Bone) and the Haversian canals (microscopic channels found in compact bone that house blood vessels and nerves, allowing for nutrient and waste exchange within the bone tissue) are visible with a 10X loupe. That’s a very basic “test” but for sure I know it’s bone but I have no way of knowing that it came from a walrus other than a leap of faith.

[Lars0729]

I think that's a great question. Plenty of knife folks challenge the authenticity of the steels used, why not question handle materials?
I'll have to admit though, I too take it at it's word that it's giraffe bone or Cape Buffalo horn. What would you require to prove it's authticy... a cert card, a lab report? And from who, and independent lab? I suppose if I were droping some serious coin I might request that.

Good stuff for thought...

[Lars0729]

And I see I need to learn how to use the quote tool as well. Umph!

[Mumbleypeg]

Over my lifetime I have seen enough bone, stag, Delrin, pearl, wood, celluloid, abalone, cholla, and others to be confident I can ascertain in most cases whether or not those materials are genuine. I don’t need no steeenking lab analysis!

Some rare (and expensive) materials like ivory, walrus, etc, I don’t know enough to verify. But I don’t buy those either so in my case at least, it really doesn’t matter. (I do have one knife that I have been told is walrus. I have to say I’m not sure, but for that matter, really don’t care either. I’m happy with it and don’t intend to sell it).

Ken

[tughillbrookie]

I think that's a great question. Plenty of knife folks challenge the authenticity of the steels used, why not question handle materials?
I'll have to admit though, I too take it at it's word that it's giraffe bone or Cape Buffalo horn. What would you require to prove it's authticy... a cert card, a lab report? And from who, and independent lab? I suppose if I were droping some serious coin I might request that.

Good stuff for thought...

First off, I greatly appreciate the well thought out responses here. You all are a wealth of knowledge and I thank you.

My wife suggested an authenticity certificate. I think of that like an MLB autograph.

I'd like to think the materials are what they purport to be, but dang, we're trusting an awful lot, especially when you look at the prices for some of these knives on eBay.

[tughillbrookie]

Has anyone ever had one of their knives tested to ensure the authenticity of the handle material?

I have a knife with Oosik covers (Fossilized Walrus Penis Bone) and the Haversian canals (microscopic channels found in compact bone that house blood vessels and nerves, allowing for nutrient and waste exchange within the bone tissue) are visible with a 10X loupe. That’s a very basic “test” but for sure I know it’s bone but I have no way of knowing that it came from a walrus other than a leap of faith.

Thanks!

I guess that leaves us to trust the manufactures they are selling us what they advertise. The skeptic in me, who has been burned before, raises some questions. This is especially true of Mammoth Ivory as it seems every drop from NW has that material now.

[Railsplitter]

I don’t think Bill Howard at GEC would buy and use fake materials on his Northwoods knives. He just doesn’t seem like that type of guy.

I believe Queen made most or many of the Northwoods knives before GEC started making them. I wouldn’t have any reason to mistrust Queen either.

I wonder if Mammoth Ivory could be Carbon Dated if you could find a scientist or forensic specialist to do it. There aren’t very many materials used on knives that would be 10,000 years old.

[Mumbleypeg]

The idea of an “authenticity certificate” has been tried before in the knife collecting world, and it unfortunately failed miserably. When James Parker Sr. created the Case Classics series he created a “Certificate of Authenticity” (COA) for each of the knives. Good idea right? Well, years later it turns out anyone can create a facsimile and print them off like toilet paper. Pretty much the same with any manufacturer’s COA.

So they’re basically worthless as an authentication instrument. Some foolishly think they’re worth something but in a world rife with counterfeit knives and scammers, a piece of paper is no big challenge. Not sure how MLB authentication works but unfortunately there is no such over-arching organization associated with knife collecting. And most manufacturers are unable to authenticate anything reputed to be from their factory if it’s over 30-40 years old. Most don’t have good records, and the employees that were there then and would know, are not there now. There are members here who know far more than they do.

As for the prices, regardless where they originate, the best defense is education. Study, become knowledgeable, and if you encounter something that you’re concerned whether it’s authentic, keep your money in your wallet!

Ken

[OLDE CUTLER]

Like I always have said, certificates of authenticy should be printed on toilet paper, that way they would at least be useful for something.

[tughillbrookie]

I wonder if Mammoth Ivory could be Carbon Dated if you could find a scientist or forensic specialist to do it. There aren’t very many materials used on knives that would be 10,000 years old

It's a great point and I thought similarly, though that may be a destructive technique as they would need a sample of the handle. My curiosity was piqued mostly because I recently acquired a Mammoth Ivory Northwoods knife (via resale because getting the drops is crazy difficult - Fremont Jack) and was wondering if anyone had questioned authenticity.

I did read of using a black light on the handle to see what color it fluoresces. If it's bone, it should be white. If not, perhaps yellow. I bought a black light flashlight a while back to track mouse activity around my hunting cabin (as they urinate all over the place and it fluoresces) so I'll try that next time I'm there.

Seems the consensus is we take the manufacturer at their word. Frankly, I'm mostly ok with that. I don't have a reason to distrust GEC or Northwoods for that matter. If it turned out the materials were fake, it would be the end of their business so not really a good business plan!

Thank you all gentlemen. Have a great weekend.

[doglegg]

I have heard the with ivory it might even be the dust from their cutting it reconstituted with epoxy. Roland had mentioned that one time. But I have no proof other than his mentioning it.

[tughillbrookie]

I have heard the with ivory it might even be the dust from their cutting it reconstituted with epoxy. Roland had mentioned that one time. But I have no proof other than his mentioning it.

That would be disappointing if true.

[Dinadan]

I have read this thread with considerable interest. Some good points made here, and I agree that we mostly just have to take the manufacturer's word.

Think for a moment about pocket knife handle material over the past century. We have had plastic jigged to look (vaguely) like jigged bone, we have had bone dust pressed to look like bone, bone or antler dust pressed to look (vaguely) like antler, bone milled to look like antler, plastic made to look like MOP, plastic made to look like ivory, plastic molded to look (vaguely) like antler, plastic made to look like horn ... Enormous efforts have been expended to imitate natural materials, and many millions of knives made with those materials. The strange thing about pocket knives is not that some have fake material - the strange thing is that some have genuine material!

[tughillbrookie]

Ultimately, I have to decide if I can reconcile the price I paid (resale) for the knife and then take the leap of faith that's it's genuine, solid mammoth ivory (or whatever material). I will still try the 'black light test', but I'm not going to pin my conclusions on that singular test.

In all of the discussion boards I have been a part of in my lifetime, this one seems the most useful. I appreciate the responses from everyone. Perhaps others will see it and choose to weigh in.

[edge213]

Ultimately, I have to decide if I can reconcile the price I paid (resale) for the knife and then take the leap of faith that's it's genuine, solid mammoth ivory (or whatever material). I will still try the 'black light test', but I'm not going to pin my conclusions on that singular test.

In all of the discussion boards I have been a part of in my lifetime, this one seems the most useful. I appreciate the responses from everyone. Perhaps others will see it and choose to weigh in.

Will you post a picture of the knife?

[Dinadan]

Ultimately, I have to decide if I can reconcile the price I paid (resale) for the knife and then take the leap of faith that's it's genuine, solid mammoth ivory (or whatever material). I will still try the 'black light test', but I'm not going to pin my conclusions on that singular test.

The black light might just work for one material: Elforyn Super Tusk. Super Tusk that has a UV dye intentionally added to make it easy to distinguish from real ivory. From the maker's webpage:

Elforyn Super Tusk is the closest material to ever replicate genuine elephant ivory.
An unbelievable imitation of the color, grain and “Schreger lines”.
Contains a UV dye to easily distinguish itself from genuine ivory under black light.

I have a knife that I believe has Super Tusk handles: it looks like ivory and does fluoresce blue under UV light. Unfortunately, the material shrinks and warps just like the old black plastic from the 1940s.

[tughillbrookie]

Here you go.

[QTCut5]

Gorgeous Mammoth Ivory 100% authentic, no doubt about it

[Railsplitter]

What ~Q~ said. That’s what I was thinking too. I just can’t prove it.