SCC Bone Lockback Electrician's Knife - TL-29 or 2043SD ?

[Doug Marsden]

I've had a request from a fellow member of this site to post the following eye candy. Problem is, I'm not sure exactly what I have, other that one of my absolute favorites. Is this a civilian model SCC #2043SD (P. 77, Catalog E) without the shackle, or is it a bone-handled military TL-29 ?

LT, where are you when we need you?

Regardless, it's a honey of a folder! Note the "old school" lock back mechanism for the screw driver instead of the newer thumb lock/press release mechanism used by later models. How it works is all but impossible to figure out without disassembling the knife; the mechanism is invisible from the outside, even with both main blade and screw driver extended. (Once the screwdriver is locked open, the lock is released by depressing on the still-folded main blade. NEAT!) Also, the scales are so uniformly dyed and so perfectly matched that I honestly wondered at first whether they weren't synthetic instead of bone.

Whether you can help with an answer to my question or not, ENJOY !!

[upnorth]

Interesting knife, Doug!!
Can you post a better pic of the tang stamps??

[ea42]

Doug, nice knife! I'd definitely go with the 2043, I believe all the TL-29's had the standard liner locks. Not sure why there's no shackle, although it's possible one was removed and the hole re-pinned at some time in the past. If I'm not mistaken I seem to recall some discussion here a while back regarding Empire's involvement in that particular lock mechanism. I'll have to look it up, or wrangle Charlie up to take a look.

Eric

[ea42]

Damn! Charlie's apparently psychic, he was here before I even finished posting!

[orvet]

Sweet knife Doug!

It appears to be of the style used during WWI, however I cannot answer the question of whether it is military or not.
I would tend to think not, as most examples I have seen from that era that were military have a shield on them identifying them as a Signal Corps knife; shields with such inscriptions as “S.C. U.S.A.”, “U.S. SIGNAL CORPS”, “S.C.-U.S.A.”, ect. Levine (LG4) says they usually have military markings on the shield, Page 194.

Mike Silvey covers TL-29s very well in his book “POCKET KNIVES OF THE US MILITARY.” He shows photos of several examples of the WWI type from Camillus, Empire, Ulster, Keen Kutter and Case. However he does not show any examples of Schrade Cut Co. until he covers the WWII TL-29s. The TL-29s made for WWII were the ones with the liner lock for the screwdriver blade, not the internal lock.
WWI TL-29s were specified to be a 3-5/8 inches sleeveboard handle with wooden scales, LG4, page 194. The later TL-29s are 3-3/4 inches in length with the linerlock on the screwdriver blade.

Somewhere I have more info on these. I will have to get back later with it.
I seem to recall that I have the date that the TL-29 was changed from internal lock to the linerlock was c. 1925, but will have to find the info to be sure.

Doug, should you ever run across the brother to that knife………………you have my phone number!
That is a real beauty!

Dale

[Paladin]

Very interesting and great knives.
Here is a photo of a Schrade Cut Co electrician's knife I recently acquired. Until I read this post, it was the only peachseed bone version I had ever seen in Schrade Cut Co.

[orvet]

NIce one Ray!

Dale

[Doug Marsden]

THANKS, guys, for all the input and commentary.

upnorth (Charlie? I'm assuming from Eric's post that you're one in the same), I'm glad you picked up on this thread. I've seen some of your other postings re SCCs. All I can say about the SCC knives you've shared pictures of so far is ... for both our sakes, don't give me directions to your house up there in the great green north; I'd be too tempted to try catburglaring. You've got some real SCC jaw droppers! Mine pictured here has the standard three-line SCHRADE over CUT CO over WALDEN NY tang stamps. Both stamps are very clear but rather shallow, which I guess is why they don't show up well in pictures.

Ray, that's a beautiful model! Great picture. I'm not sure, but yours actually appears to have a bit more belly left to it than mine (although both knives have spear blades still look pretty full). The bone on yours is actually nicer (in my opinion) because yours still has natural color irregularities one would expect with dyed natural bone. The bone scales on mine are so uniform in color that I actually thought they were some early delrin or something when I first got the knife. (Their color reminds me of the reddish brown delrin(?) material Camillus used on some of its navy knives back in the '60s.)

Eric, good leads for me to follow up on re Empire and the era of the different locking mechanisms. I'll start scouring this site and Blade Forum.

Dale, that poster you posted intrigues me. The knife pictured in the lower right hand corner, is it a bone handle? If so, it's the first picture of one I've seen that, like mine, doesn't have the shackle.

-Doug

[orvet]

Doug,
IIRC, that was a paper insert that came with a knife.
I think I copied the pic off an ebay auction or from someone else's post in a forum.
I copied it because I collect TL-29s.

Dale

[Doug Marsden]

Dale,

It's hard to tell from the picture, but I must give credit to Schrade Cutlery Co. as far as their illustrations go. The illustrations in SCC's Catalog E (1926-1938) are very good about depicting the different scale material used with each model. You can often look at the illustration and determine the type of scale material being depicted, even with the plasticized handles. 'Pretty much anything in the catalog with a "jigged" appearance was a bone scale. Is that what your poster is depicting on that knife in the bottom RH corner?

Your poster's illustration of the electrician's knife without the shackle looks like a representation of SCC's bone "stag" scale, but it's hard to tell without the ability to (visually) blow it up. Can you compare the representation in your poster to the diagrams of your Catalog E? Same pattern?

If so, I can feel warmer and fuzzier that mine (without a shackle) is all-original.

-Doug

[upnorth]

Doug, don't worry about temptation, because my best Schrades are in a safety deposit box ! It's cheaper than insurance, for now.

Here are some Empires for comparison. One from my collection, and one marked SCUSA scanned from Silvey's book.
At one time I thought Empire made them all for the different companies, but now I'm not sure.

[orvet]

Dale,

Your poster's illustration of the electrician's knife without the shackle looks like a representation of SCC's bone "stag" scale, but it's hard to tell without the ability to (visually) blow it up. Can you compare the representation in your poster to the diagrams of your Catalog E? Same pattern?

If so, I can feel warmer and fuzzier that mine (without a shackle) is all-original.

-Doug

Doug,
I can blow it up, but when I do I cannot read it. It was not a high quality pic.
I would think it is likely the same as your knife.

Now you can feel warm and fuzzy!

Dale

[Doug Marsden]

Great looking Empire, upnorth. There are a number of similarities between the Empire and the SCC; but is it my eyes or does the Empire have more of a cigar shape? The Schrades always looked to have a bit of a swell to the handle at the non-business end.

Dale, you're the specialist on these guys. Do the shape of the handles look slightly different, one company compared to the other, or is it my eyeballs that have the swell to them?

[upnorth]

Doug, they are definitely slimmer than the above Schrades. But here's the one that gives me fits! I just found the pic.
I suspect it is a subcontract knife.

[Doug Marsden]

upnorth,

That SCC you just posted a picture of IS a bonker-generator. I don't see anything like that in Catalog E. Dual-side wire stripper feature on the blade, slimmer, cigar-shaped handle, all just like your Empire.

NEAT new perspective on these TL-29s.

Dale, you must be happy dancing like crazy seeing all these electrician's knives!


-Doug

[Miller Bro's]

Here is an old Smith & Hemenway "Red Devil" circa 1906-1936.

Has the same internal lock as the Schrade and Empire posted here.

Could have been made by Empire, Utica, or some other well known knife companies.




M.B.

[Doug Marsden]

M.B.,

Except for the pin placement (and, of course, the different shield) yours could be the twin of upnorth's Empire!

Man! Aren't they ALL beautiful !!

-Doug

PS, That Red Devil of yours looks like you just bought it brand new yesterday! Don't tell us you're so old that you were able to be its first owner !

[Miller Bro's]

PS, That Red Devil of yours looks like you just bought it brand new yesterday! Don't tell us you're so old that you were able to be its first owner !

Doug,

Hell no!


M.B.

[upnorth]

That Red Devil is cool, M.B.

It would be nice to compare those knives in the flesh. It would probably answer some DNA questions!

[Miller Bro's]

Charlie,

That can be arranged




M.B.

[Miller Bro's]

Here is a single blade Red Devil electricians knife.

I think Charlie has an Empire single blade like this one.

It would be nice to compare pictures of them side by side.

Take note of the number of pins in the handles




M.B.

[orvet]

M.B.-
Didn't Schrade (or was it someone else) make a knife like that, single screwdriver blade, which they called the Radio Knife?

Dale

[Miller Bro's]

Dale,

I think Schrade did make a single blade version. I know Empire did for sure, and of course this Red Devil.

The knife ,to me, that comes to mind when you mention "Radio Knife", is the Remington version. It has two blades, a screwdriver/wire stripper and a cutting blade.

Miller Bro`s may have made a single blade version as well. I do have another single blade one, but the tang is unreadable.

Maybe Charlie C. has an example of a Schrade single blade?


M.B.

[orvet]

I think you are right on the Remington.
I may have had the brands confused.
I just remembering seeing someone post an old ad for the "Radio Knife."
I thought it was a single blade screwdriver.

Maybe the only thing I had right was the name.

Dale

[upnorth]

Here's a pic with that single blade, and a copy of MB's Red Devil.