Case Sidewinder Question

[New2thagame]

I just recently obtained my first Case Sidewinder 1981, (See pics) The bolster is engraved "SM 20 Cuts", the seller I got it from thinks it may have come from the factory with this engraved on it. If that's the case, does anybody know what it means? or Did I just get a knife that someone added this after the fact. Any feedback would be appreciated, Thanks Mark

[Camillus]

I too have a Taylor knife that is stamped 17 cuts, this was given as an award to the person for whatever reason?

[Owd Wullie]

Uh.....

Sado-Masochism contest winners?

<runs>

[Luckypaul777]

Mark, I have owned a couple of the Sidewinders; I don't think it was engraved with " SM 20 Cuts" by Case. These usually go for $240-$265 on eBay; in mint condition.

Paul

[knfmn]

I may be completely wrong,but this could be a mining award knife.The number indicating how many cuts of coal in a days work. I know that coal companies use to give safety and production awards.

[New2thagame]

[quote="Owd Wullie"]Uh.....

Sado-Masochism contest winners?




I hadn't thought about an awards knife of some type. I appreciate the inputs especially Owd Wullie, haha

[peterforce]

hey i spoke to case and was told it did not leave case engraved
as far as they can remember.something earlier like this 81
they are pretty on with their info.

the gentlleman before me im almost positive was correct.

surafce mining if it doesnt sound familiar the term
"strip mining" might rinng a bell.

after reading the entire page on link posted below.
my guess is the knife was ordered
from Case in 1981.then at the end of the year,engraved after deciding what the goal should be.then most likely given away to the man who averaged a 20 SM cuts a day for the year.
read it and if you want let me know if you came to similiar
conclusion.

http://www.answers.com/topic/surface-mining

paul was also right on his ebay price as well.

owd wullie got me chuckling!


beautiful knife as well?

[woseyjales]

I heard two guys in the next booth at the Waffle House
(not really) say that the real scarce Sidelywinder
is the one engraved with BBJ 100 Cuts.
Allegedly awarded to Big Bad John !!!!!

[New2thagame]

Thanks Peter, I read the page and came to the same conclusion. Looks like I got myself an awards knife. I got it from an online auction "theknifeauction.com" for $159 + $7.95 shipping. It'll make a good addition to my collection, very impressive knife.

[Luckypaul777]

New2thagame, excellent price on that knife.


Paul

[Aimus Moses]

My opinion;

this Case knife wasn't an award or bonus for a strip or surface mine. It is more likely a bonus knife from a large underground coalmine company given as a bonus to a crew of men for 20 cuts of coal in one shifts work. Strip and surface mines don't use the word CUTS to describe the amount of coal produced by their mining. They use square yardage to describe an amount of coal produced. Underground coalmining uses the word CUTS to describe an amount of coal produced in a shifts work. 20 cuts would be a very good amount of coal produced in an underground mine in one shifts work and would certainly be deserving for the crew (men) to be given such a nice Case knife as a bonus for doing so. Peterforce if one single man ever averaged producing 20 cuts of coal a day for a complete year, he would be wearing a cape, have a big letter S on the front of his shirt, be faster than a speeding bullet, and could leap tall buildings in a single bound. Gentlemen getting 20 cuts of coal on a conventional section in an underground coalmine in one shifts work means there were some hard working coalminers that solid worked their rearends off that shift. BTW, have you been on your computer for a couple of hours today or watched your TV for a few hours today? Then take a moment to thank those coalminers that are getting those cuts of coal for that electricity you used to power those electric things. GOD BLESS the coalminer because he's the only real help the coalminers have down in those deep dark holes in the earth.

That's just my opinion though, it might not be worth 2 cents but it's mine.
Aimus Moses.

[Owd Wullie]

GOD BLESS the coalminer because he's the only real help the coalminers have down in those deep dark holes in the earth.

AMEN! to that.

I've done a lot of hard work in a lot of dangerous places, but I will NEVER work in an underground mine.

Those boys don't make near enough for what they go through to earn their keep.

[peterforce]

mosley great story. i bet that knife is a one if a kind!

hey moses good to meet ya.

like i said im just guessing. i will admit i know nothing about coal mining.iknow my grandfather worked in the industry and when i visited him when i was younger i remember hic clothes being covered in black but im not sure what he did exactly.

i love trying to figure things out like this and moses your 2 cents was worth more.give yourself some credit.i apprciate you taking the time to write a response that long.i want you to know that i respectfully read it completely.

i was wondering though moses after all my seraching on coal mining.
the S.M. on the knife i can only imagine mean "surface mining".

im curious what would you beleive the S.M. was for?

like i said i know nothing about coal mining.at all

im sure moses what you said about a man being superman if he could remove that many cuts in a day is true.

the knife was made in 1981.even with technology and so forth
that much couldnt be produced? i dunno

with an award though,not only will terms be used loosely but its always possible that it didnt mean for the day and could have meant an average for a week in a year or whatever.

hey your further input is worth alot more then 2 cents to me if you dont mind? i love anything like this at all and actually write little
summaries on things like this for further use.so thank you.

REGARDLESS AWESOME KNIFE AT A VERY AWESOME PRICE CONGRATS!!!

[Aimus Moses]

GOD BLESS the coalminer because he's the only real help the coalminers have down in those deep dark holes in the earth.

Those boys don't make near enough for what they go through to earn their keep.

Those words couldn't have been spoken any truer my friend. Thank you for your respect for the coalminer Owd Wullie. Most people never give them the respect they deserve until they see first hand with their own eyes the conditions and dangers that the coalminer has to work in, every single second of every day, or until they see on CNN where some miners have lost their lives doing their #1 job, providing for their family. Underground coalmining is like any other worker doing their normal job everyday but with a cocked gun pointed at them the whole time that could go bang, and take their life in less than a split second at any given time. Coalminers are a rare breed of American, and there's no others like them that's for sure.

Peterforce, the S.M. initials are more than likely meant to represent the section of the mines that made those 20 cuts of coal in one shifts work. In the bigger coalmines they will have a South Main section, a North main section, a East main section, and a West main section. All these sections have their own crew of men and they are mining coal in opposite directions of each other. I would say that this Case knife was a bonus knife from a bigger coalmining company given to a section crew because #1 the smaller mines would never spend that much money on a bonus knife because they only give the crew a Camillus, Schrade, or Boker plain jane hawkbill (unetched) and a new pair of work gloves, and an expectation of getting 20 cuts a shift, again. #2 The smaller mines also don't have South main, North main, East main, or West main sections mining in different directions from each other like the bigger mines do. The smaller mines will usually only have one section with anywhere from 4 to 8 headings and all the headings are being mined in the same direction by the one crew of men. So in short, I would suspect the S.M. initials are for the South main section of the coalmines that bought the Case knife. Peabody, Massey, Eastern consolidated coal group or the like would be one of the bigger coal companies that would order a Case knife of the price for a bonus. I hope I explained it to where you can understand it.

Aimus Moses

[peterforce]

hey moses thank you very much.

gave me more to think about and more to read up on.

like i said my granfather worked in the coal industry and i can
remember the best way we could have awarded him at the end of the day was by getting him a cold beer and getting out of his way. went right over my head that this would be considered a premium award.

once again moses thank you for your info.

[Aimus Moses]

Peterforce, the coal seam determines the size and type of equipment that can mine it. The equipment inturn determines how much coal can be mined with it. A CUT of coal in a small mines is a 50 foot X 50 foot square block of coal that can be from 28 inches thick upto 4 or 5 feet thick. A cut of coal in a large mine is 100 foot X 100 foot square block of coal that can be from 4 foot thick to 12 or 14 foot thick or more. Regardless of the coals thickness, you have to keep your nose to the grind stone to get 20 cuts in one shift of work on a conventional section. There are many different ways that underground coal is mined. One is called conventional which uses a continuous miner machine, roof bolter machine, scoop machine, & electric buggy cars that haul the coal to the belt line and dump it to send it outside above ground. Another way is mining with a plow. A plow is only used in very large mines with very high coal from like 6 foot high upto 15-20 foot high or higher. A plow section doesn't count the amount of coal mined as a CUT. It is set up to take thousands of foot coal at one time. It works just like it's name says, like a plow people used to use to cut ground to plant a garden, except it is much much bigger and it plows sideways into the seam of coal instead of plowing down wards like a garden plow does to turn ground. It removes hundreds of tons of coal in one run down the coal seam. Then it is set back up to do the same thing over again. The next way to mine is called non-conventional. This type of mining is now nearly obsolete and only use in small dog hole mines that can't afford to buy the equipment to mine conventionally. It takes more machinery (which is out dated), lots of explosives, more men, and is much slower than the other types of mining and can't produce 1/4 as much coal as conventional mining. I hope some of this makes sense to you. I'm trying to explain it as best as I can.
I'll try to get hooked back up with you tomorrow and talk more about mining if you want. Gotta go get some rest now. It's been a rough day. Good night everyone.

Aimus Moses

[peterforce]

moses thank you for your time.

i copied what you wrote to a folder on my pc!

very appreciated.ill pm you my email address.

[New2thagame]

This is why I like this site, the knowledge of the members and the sharing of that knowledge. I just wish these old knives could tell us the whole story.