Early Case XX fixed blade identification discussion

[67cuda]

I believe I’ve gotten closer to identifying this particular case fixed blade that was previously unidentifiable. All research points to 1915-1920, unless I’m missing something ? Let me know if you all agree, or tell me why you would disagree. I’m fairly new to these old collectibles even though I’ve collected hundreds of knives throughout the decades. I’d really appreciate the opinions and learning experience. The tang stamps shown are pre-1920. This knife has both sides stamped and the large aluminum pummel nut, not to mention the blade design. Maybe $400 was a little high, I’m not sure, but I love this design. I don’t think anyone is making this design These days ? Am I missing anything ?

[btrwtr]

I believe this is an early Kinfolks plant knife made for Case between 1926 and 1933. Model would be 124. You should ignore any of the pocket knife tang stamps when trying to find a production date for a fixed blade knife. The large aluminum barrel nut is usually a feature found on Kinfolk plant knives.

[67cuda]

I believe this is an early Kinfolks plant knife made for Case between 1926 and 1933. Model would be 124. You should ignore any of the pocket knife tang stamps when trying to find a production date for a fixed blade knife. The large aluminum barrel nut is usually a feature found on Kinfolk plant knives.

Hmmm ? I have so much to learn about the complexities of those early makers. You are the first to suggest this theory so specifically. Not everything is as it seems With the earlier companies. Unfortunately, to my knowledge, there’s no way to verify this theory, especially with the double stamp only found on folders of the time. Like I stated, I have much to learn on the subject obviously. I’m not a serious collector or re-sale for profit kinda guy, so investing in a library full of books on knives might be overkill for me. I buy what I like and keep it. I did just buy a marbles and western. Both woodcraft models. I’m still bidding on a few, one of which is a Kinfolk trail master K-380. Looks like a woodcraft design. By the way, I can’t find any mention of a 124 model made by case or kinfolk ? Wasn’t case using the larger aluminum nuts on the pommel before switching to brass ? That was my understanding, then switched to the smaller brass nut.

[Gunsil]

Wayne is correct that the pocket knife tang stamp charts do not apply to Case fixed blades. There is also no proof that Case made any fixed blades before 1923, and by 1926 and up to 1932-33 all their fixed blades were made by Kinfolks. However it looks like your knife has a nickel silver guard which may indicate pre-Kinfolks made by Case. It is the aluminum guards that define Kinfolks made Case fixed blades. There is discussion among Case fixed blade collectors regarding the large aluminum pommel nuts, some think they are pre-Kinfolks but they are definitely not pre-1923. Now when Kinfolks took over making the Case fixed blades there were several pounds of nickel guards sent by Case to Kinfolks so it is entirely possible that the earlier Kinfolks made Case knives had nickel guards, but it wasn't long before they all had aluminum guards. At 400 I wish you would come to my tables at a knife show!! That price is more in the range of stag handled knives, usually the wood or leather handled ones are not near that money unless dead mint maybe. The early Case hunting knives are very nice knives, I collected them for fifty years, now letting most go as I am getting older. There will be a Knife Magazine article coming soon that will have good info on some of the earlier and previously unknown model number Case hunters. Identical knives made by Kinfolks and marked Kinfolks or Case will have different model numbers, and only the Kinfolks marked ones will have model numbers on the blade. In other words, the same knife marked Case which is a model 124 will not be model 124 in a Kinfolks inventory. Kinfolks also made most all of the fixed blade knives for Cattaraugus from 1926 until at least 1941 and the model you have with that blade and handle design can be found with either Case, Catt, or Kinfolks marked blades. It was also made with wood, leather, or stag handles. Some will have the aluminum pommel nut and some a brass pommel nut, and it is generally accepted that the large aluminum pommel nuts do precede the brass nuts.

[Mumbleypeg]

That’s a very nice specimen you have there 67cuda. I’m glad that some of the more knowledgeable fixed blade folks here have helped you. I’m not one of them, but wanted to give my opinion regarding your other comments.

If you’re collecting older knives, regardless the maker but especially Case, and spending that kind of money for them, you really should invest in a few good reference books. Counterfeits abound in that realm. Study the material in those books, go to some shows and seriously look at authentic old knives. Talk to the collectors and dealers you’ll meet. That’s a small investment relative to the amount spent on acquiring the knives. Having an interest in the knives anyway, you’ll probably enjoy the learning (and the new friends!) And if you avoid just one counterfeit, you’ll likely recoup most of the cost. JMO

Ken

[Gunsil]

Sadly there are no current books with good fixed blade info. Yes, Sargent's books had a good section on Case fixed blades but those books are long out of print and much more info has come to light since they were written. The article in Knife Mag coming soon will define some of the Case knives that were listed as unknown models in the Sargent's books. As many know, the tang stamp charts for Case have some serious errors and do not apply to Case fixed blades and the only available KA-BAR stamp chart has many incorrect stamp/date IDs.

[Mumbleypeg]

Gene, I don’t disagree with what you’ve said. However a good reference (like Sargent’s) even though dated is better than nothing. Regardless when any book is published there will always be more, newer information forthcoming. I’m looking forward to seeing the new information in Knife Magazine just as I appreciated Brad Wood’s newly found documents and information they published last year. But I won’t be throwing out my Sargent’s any time soon. It’s long out of print but copies can be obtained through used book sellers (digital copies are reasonably priced too).

My recommendation is more aimed at folks proactively educating themselves and preventing counterfeiters from taking advantage. As opposed to spending money on something and then afterward asking “what did I buy?“.

Ken

[Gunsil]

Ken, I agree totally, anybody who collects Case fixed blades should have a later copy of Sargent's book. I know they are hard to find anymore, the early ones didn't have the fixed blade section. I didn't know digital versions were available, sounds like a good way to go for those who can't find a printed copy. Thankfully there aren't many fake Case hunting knives out there but there are some Case "fantasy" knives on the bay and the book would be a good way to avoid those as well as all the ground down reshaped knives one sees. The Knife magazine article coming is by Brad Wood so it will be very informative I am sure. I have all the info that will be in the article although I haven't seen the article yet myself, should be a good 'un. I am hoping he includes some info on dating the Case hunting knife stamps too for all to see.

[67cuda]

Wayne is correct that the pocket knife tang stamp charts do not apply to Case fixed blades. There is also no proof that Case made any fixed blades before 1923, and by 1926 and up to 1932-33 all their fixed blades were made by Kinfolks. However it looks like your knife has a nickel silver guard which may indicate pre-Kinfolks made by Case. It is the aluminum guards that define Kinfolks made Case fixed blades. There is discussion among Case fixed blade collectors regarding the large aluminum pommel nuts, some think they are pre-Kinfolks but they are definitely not pre-1923. Now when Kinfolks took over making the Case fixed blades there were several pounds of nickel guards sent by Case to Kinfolks so it is entirely possible that the earlier Kinfolks made Case knives had nickel guards, but it wasn't long before they all had aluminum guards. At 400 I wish you would come to my tables at a knife show!! That price is more in the range of stag handled knives, usually the wood or leather handled ones are not near that money unless dead mint maybe. The early Case hunting knives are very nice knives, I collected them for fifty years, now letting most go as I am getting older. There will be a Knife Magazine article coming soon that will have good info on some of the earlier and previously unknown model number Case hunters. Identical knives made by Kinfolks and marked Kinfolks or Case will have different model numbers, and only the Kinfolks marked ones will have model numbers on the blade. In other words, the same knife marked Case which is a model 124 will not be model 124 in a Kinfolks inventory. Kinfolks also made most all of the fixed blade knives for Cattaraugus from 1926 until at least 1941 and the model you have with that blade and handle design can be found with either Case, Catt, or Kinfolks marked blades. It was also made with wood, leather, or stag handles. Some will have the aluminum pommel nut and some a brass pommel nut, and it is generally accepted that the large aluminum pommel nuts do precede the brass nuts.

Thanks for that response, it was informative, however, the guard is brass. I am relying partially on you people with much more experience, to school me. I do seek knowledge on this particular subject, and it seems as complex as history itself.

[67cuda]

That’s a very nice specimen you have there 67cuda. I’m glad that some of the more knowledgeable fixed blade folks here have helped you. I’m not one of them, but wanted to give my opinion regarding your other comments.

If you’re collecting older knives, regardless the maker but especially Case, and spending that kind of money for them, you really should invest in a few good reference books. Counterfeits abound in that realm. Study the material in those books, go to some shows and seriously look at authentic old knives. Talk to the collectors and dealers you’ll meet. That’s a small investment relative to the amount spent on acquiring the knives. Having an interest in the knives anyway, you’ll probably enjoy the learning (and the new friends!) And if you avoid just one counterfeit, you’ll likely recoup most of the cost. JMO

Ken

Thanks Ken. It was my first purchase with a focus on history. There’s a learning curve, lol ! I also got caught up in a bidding war on eBay. Not too smart, eh, lol ! I’ve been to one knife show years ago and very few fixed blades were involved. My goal in this case was not only the earliest of such a model, but I couldn’t find this particular design anywhere, ( which looked like a combination of many of their designs at the time, or pre-separation to more specific models ). As far as purchasing books on the subject, I’ve found that no one, nor group of books contain true reality. Authors write books for profit, and manipulation. This is just a fact. I find more information from highly experienced individuals than all books combined. This is the case no matter the subject.

[67cuda]

Ken, I agree totally, anybody who collects Case fixed blades should have a later copy of Sargent's book. I know they are hard to find anymore, the early ones didn't have the fixed blade section. I didn't know digital versions were available, sounds like a good way to go for those who can't find a printed copy. Thankfully there aren't many fake Case hunting knives out there but there are some Case "fantasy" knives on the bay and the book would be a good way to avoid those as well as all the ground down reshaped knives one sees. The Knife magazine article coming is by Brad Wood so it will be very informative I am sure. I have all the info that will be in the article although I haven't seen the article yet myself, should be a good 'un. I am hoping he includes some info on dating the Case hunting knife stamps too for all to see.

Gunsil, I want to thank you all. You’ve been helpful and informative. Now, as far as books go, I could buy 20 of the best on any subject, but that will always be a precursor to true knowledge unfortunately. You people combined know things that aren’t in any books through experience. If you have higher educational, or academic experience, you know this to be true. That’s why every college graduate starts at the bottom of any career. Academia is screwed in America ! If you have any for sale, I’d love a chance to see, maybe purchase them. I’m merely collecting these old functional designs to pass on to my kids. I’m not looking to get into re-sale, however I do own a centrally located commercial property bought with the intention of starting a business yet never nailed down which business. It’s large enough, and set up for most any business including automotive, it’s just full of all the antiques I’ve collected throughout the decades. So, if you do want me at your table, bring the table to me, here, and maybe we can help each other ? Thanks gunsil.

[Gunsil]

Wayne is correct that the pocket knife tang stamp charts do not apply to Case fixed blades. There is also no proof that Case made any fixed blades before 1923, and by 1926 and up to 1932-33 all their fixed blades were made by Kinfolks. However it looks like your knife has a nickel silver guard which may indicate pre-Kinfolks made by Case. It is the aluminum guards that define Kinfolks made Case fixed blades. There is discussion among Case fixed blade collectors regarding the large aluminum pommel nuts, some think they are pre-Kinfolks but they are definitely not pre-1923. Now when Kinfolks took over making the Case fixed blades there were several pounds of nickel guards sent by Case to Kinfolks so it is entirely possible that the earlier Kinfolks made Case knives had nickel guards, but it wasn't long before they all had aluminum guards. At 400 I wish you would come to my tables at a knife show!! That price is more in the range of stag handled knives, usually the wood or leather handled ones are not near that money unless dead mint maybe. The early Case hunting knives are very nice knives, I collected them for fifty years, now letting most go as I am getting older. There will be a Knife Magazine article coming soon that will have good info on some of the earlier and previously unknown model number Case hunters. Identical knives made by Kinfolks and marked Kinfolks or Case will have different model numbers, and only the Kinfolks marked ones will have model numbers on the blade. In other words, the same knife marked Case which is a model 124 will not be model 124 in a Kinfolks inventory. Kinfolks also made most all of the fixed blade knives for Cattaraugus from 1926 until at least 1941 and the model you have with that blade and handle design can be found with either Case, Catt, or Kinfolks marked blades. It was also made with wood, leather, or stag handles. Some will have the aluminum pommel nut and some a brass pommel nut, and it is generally accepted that the large aluminum pommel nuts do precede the brass nuts.

Thanks for that response, it was informative, however, the guard is brass. I am relying partially on you people with much more experience, to school me. I do seek knowledge on this particular subject, and it seems as complex as history itself.

No way that guard is brass. In your photos it looks quite silver colored against the yellow of the brass spacers. Case did not use brass guards in the early days, it was nickel silver, then aluminum under Kinfolks, and back to nickel in the early 1930s.

[67cuda]

Wayne is correct that the pocket knife tang stamp charts do not apply to Case fixed blades. There is also no proof that Case made any fixed blades before 1923, and by 1926 and up to 1932-33 all their fixed blades were made by Kinfolks. However it looks like your knife has a nickel silver guard which may indicate pre-Kinfolks made by Case. It is the aluminum guards that define Kinfolks made Case fixed blades. There is discussion among Case fixed blade collectors regarding the large aluminum pommel nuts, some think they are pre-Kinfolks but they are definitely not pre-1923. Now when Kinfolks took over making the Case fixed blades there were several pounds of nickel guards sent by Case to Kinfolks so it is entirely possible that the earlier Kinfolks made Case knives had nickel guards, but it wasn't long before they all had aluminum guards. At 400 I wish you would come to my tables at a knife show!! That price is more in the range of stag handled knives, usually the wood or leather handled ones are not near that money unless dead mint maybe. The early Case hunting knives are very nice knives, I collected them for fifty years, now letting most go as I am getting older. There will be a Knife Magazine article coming soon that will have good info on some of the earlier and previously unknown model number Case hunters. Identical knives made by Kinfolks and marked Kinfolks or Case will have different model numbers, and only the Kinfolks marked ones will have model numbers on the blade. In other words, the same knife marked Case which is a model 124 will not be model 124 in a Kinfolks inventory. Kinfolks also made most all of the fixed blade knives for Cattaraugus from 1926 until at least 1941 and the model you have with that blade and handle design can be found with either Case, Catt, or Kinfolks marked blades. It was also made with wood, leather, or stag handles. Some will have the aluminum pommel nut and some a brass pommel nut, and it is generally accepted that the large aluminum pommel nuts do precede the brass nuts.

Thanks for that response, it was informative, however, the guard is brass. I am relying partially on you people with much more experience, to school me. I do seek knowledge on this particular subject, and it seems as complex as history itself.

No way that guard is brass. In your photos it looks quite silver colored against the yellow of the brass spacers. Case did not use brass guards in the early days, it was nickel silver, then aluminum under Kinfolks, and back to nickel in the early 1930s.

Sorry about that. I had several posts going on here and I was talking about a different knife. Yes, this one does have a metal that is silver in color, guard. I’m not sure if it’s aluminum or not, it looks slightly different than the pommel, but it could just be my old eyes, lol ! Could be nickel ?

[rodgers62074]

I have the Case Tested XX EXPERT 208-6 . Also, not in Sargents Guide a 208-5 EXPERT. I have examined the 5 inch and it has not been messed with . Nor the 208-6 . Looking for some value here. Thanks up front.

[jimslaton]

I have a case boot knife that is stamped long ways down the blade wr case and son can anyone tell me about when it was made. Jimslaton57@gmail.com

[Mumbleypeg]

I have a case boot knife that is stamped long ways down the blade wr case and son can anyone tell me about when it was made. Jimslaton57@gmail.com

If I understand your description correctly that sounds like the way Case kitchen knives are stamped. You’ll likely have to post an in-focus picture of the knife to get a knowledgeable reply. If you need help doing that go here viewforum.php?f=98. Scroll down to find the thread with instructions for your device.

Ken

[doglegg]

Here a
Is a couple of photos of my Case butcher knife and stamp.

[jimslaton]

I still haven't figured out how to send a picture but mine is not a kitchen knife. It has a metal sheath and red bone handles. I am certain that it is a boot knife. And it says WR Case and son. Singular

[Ridgegrass]

A bit of an aside, but reading the first discussion and seeing the pics raised a question. I have this wooden handled OLCUT that looks very similar to the Case. It does lack the fuller but I laid it against a blow up of the Case and they are really close. The blow up isn't perfectly to scale. Is this just a coincidence or could Kinfolks have had some relationship with KA-BAR/OLCUT? Thanks, J.O'.

[Ridgegrass]

Whoops, forgot the pics!

[jimslaton]

My case knife

[jimslaton]

Can anyone help me with the history of this knife jim

17116976524182303860288773198012.jpg

[jimslaton]

can anyone tell me about this one jimslaton57@gmail.com

[jimslaton]

I have a case boot knife that needs a little history can anyone help

[Mumbleypeg]

I was hoping someone who knows about Case fixed blades would reply. Since you’re persistent in wanting a response I’ll give my opinion, which is worth what you paid for it. I’m no expert on fixed blades but a couple of things that I can tell you, which you’re not going to want to hear. I’m not aware that Case made any fixed blades before some time in the mid-1920s. The stamp on your knife, with “son” being singular was the first W. R. Case owned company in 1902-03. In 1903 or thereabouts the company name was changed to W. R. Case and Sons - with an S. The timeframes don’t align.

And, to me the knife looks home made. JMO. Either that or perhaps the guard has been replaced. Hopefully an expert will say I’m wrong.

Ken