Pyremite vs. Celluloid

[enuf]

I did a search for Pyremite and it returned nothing! Doing a little research and I find that Remington used a product called Pyremite and it similar to Celluloid - did this Pyremite outgas the same as the Celluloid?

[ThatWeirdKnifeGuy]

It does not. Its much more stable. All plastics release their plasticizers over time and experience some degree of shrink, but only the early celluloid is known to be so detrimental in its outgassing phase.

Pyremite is quite flammable though. So just don't immolate your knife at any point.

[1967redrider]

These two are Remington Pyremite, according to their respective pattern numbers and Price & Zalesky's 15th Edition. It likes to shrink and crack, but doesn't seem to outgas.

Sargent says this is Red/White/Blue Pyremite.

[enuf]

but the 2001 and 2002 are for sure Celluloid - right?

[1967redrider]

These 2001 and 2002s are definitely cell.

[Mumbleypeg]

Pyremite is Remington’s trade name for celluloid. Here’s a quote from a Knife World (now Knife Magazine) article on the subject.

The early makers of celluloid handled knives used terms for their products like pyremite, pyralin, perfected stag, shell, pearl, ivoroy, composition and other names that they found suitable for the purpose of marketing. In looking through the catalogs, the word "celluloid" is avoided as much as possible. The reason appears to be the flammability issue. If you dissect the pyremite & pyralin terms used by Remington, you will discover the word "pyro," which means fire. I suspect that the public was not aware of this in the purchase of a knife with this type handle material.

In my experience Remington’s celluloid is more stable than most, but I have seen pictures of a few gone bad. I think Remington used a lot of dark colored celluloid, which IMHO seems more stable than the lighter colors of celluloid.

Ken

[RedRaiderRick]

Had to Google immolate. I'm a clod.

[ThatWeirdKnifeGuy]

Had to Google immolate. I'm a clod.

Imagine not having to google it because you're familiar with it, and you'll feel less like a beef arm roast my friend.

That is to say, one time after having sprayed a camp knife with wd40, I finished the lanyard I made for it while it was attached to the bail. I melted the paracord....and set the knife ablaze! Never mix solvents and flames, have different work areas for that! I do, im just a clod sometimes.

[RedRaiderRick]

Had to Google immolate. I'm a clod.

Imagine not having to google it because you're familiar with it, and you'll feel less like a beef arm roast my friend.

That is to say, one time after having sprayed a camp knife with wd40, I finished the lanyard I made for it while it was attached to the bail. I melted the paracord....and set the knife ablaze! Never mix solvents and flames, have different work areas for that! I do, im just a clod sometimes.

Don't get me started on the times and ways I've blown myself up.

[enuf]

Had to Google immolate. I'm a clod.

Imagine not having to google it because you're familiar with it, and you'll feel less like a beef arm roast my friend.

That is to say, one time after having sprayed a camp knife with wd40, I finished the lanyard I made for it while it was attached to the bail. I melted the paracord....and set the knife ablaze! Never mix solvents and flames, have different work areas for that! I do, im just a clod sometimes.

Don't get me started on the times and ways I've blown myself up.

please tell.... all ears here pal.

[RedRaiderRick]

Well the last time I was old enough to know better. I would just say that while the recommended safe distance of 100 yards from Tannerite is overly cautious, 6 feet is waaaay to close! Don't ask how I proved that one.

[OLDE CUTLER]

I have had a couple of Pyremite Remingtons that outgassed. The one shown had a dark swirl pattern Pyremite handle material which I removed and rehandled with ebony.

[1967redrider]

I have had a couple of Pyremite Remingtons that outgassed. The one shown had a dark swirl pattern Pyremite handle material which I removed and rehandled with ebony.

IMG_5510.JPG

Any "before" pictures? I would like to know what to avoid.

[OLDE CUTLER]

I have had a couple of Pyremite Remingtons that outgassed. The one shown had a dark swirl pattern Pyremite handle material which I removed and rehandled with ebony.

IMG_5510.JPG

Any "before" pictures? I would like to know what to avoid.

Before pictures in link below. Note rust line on blade. I was thinking this one had the dark handle material, must have been the other one.
viewtopic.php?t=66369&hilit=Remington

[hardman]

Case once used a material on their Knif/ax combo that they called a Green Pearl Pyremite. It is my understanding that it is celluloid. That said, I have never seen a Green Pearl Pyremite handle outgas.

[bestgear]

I currently own many LF&C’s with mostly black celluloid (LF&C called it Perfected Stag) and have probably handled hundreds more and never experienced shrinkage or outgassing - I believe that the quality of the synthetics that were used play a large role with future deterioration along with how the knives have been stored over the years.

[enuf]

Do any of the knife makers use celluloid anymore - here is a newer Case, looks celluloid, surely, they know better now!?

[Mumbleypeg]

Do any of the knife makers use celluloid anymore - here is a newer Case, looks celluloid, surely, they know better now!?

That's not celluloid. Case calls that Kirinite. It's an acrylic material similar to what Frost calls Corelon, which you asked about in a recent post.

No, it doesn't shrink, crack or outgas like celluloid. At least not that anyone knows - maybe when it's been around 100+ years we'll know how it holds up. And there will be a bunch of wise-guys wondering why they ever used the stuff.

Ken

[enuf]

good deal. any idea what year they all stopped using celluloid?

[Mumbleypeg]

Who is "they"?

Some makers are still using celluloid I think, or they were recently. Watch out for knives made in Germany.

Ken

[enuf]

Who is "they"?

Some makers are still using celluloid I think, or they were recently. Watch out for knives made in Germany.

Ken

oh - well that is a good question - I guess when I say "they" I'd mean Case, Remington, and Winchester, but all USA knives. That'd be my they.

I thought I was getting this Celluloid figured out but this Case - it sure has the same look - at least to me.

this knife collecting business is hard on the brain!

[edge213]

Who is "they"?

Some makers are still using celluloid I think, or they were recently. Watch out for knives made in Germany.

Ken

oh - well that is a good question - I guess when I say "they" I'd mean Case, Remington, and Winchester, but all USA knives. That'd be my they.

I thought I was getting this Celluloid figured out but this Case - it sure has the same look - at least to me.

this knife collecting business is hard on the brain!

Once you handle enough knives it's not hard to tell celluloid from kirinite, or celluloid from corelon.

[enuf]

Once you handle enough knives it's not hard to tell celluloid from kirinite, or celluloid from corelon.

by looks or feel?

[edge213]

Once you handle enough knives it's not hard to tell celluloid from kirinite, or celluloid from corelon.

by looks or feel?

Mostly looks, also the colors and patterns in the materials.
Age and manufacturer of the knife also play into this.

[Mumbleypeg]

Celluloid has a distinctive look, once you’ve seen enough of it. Best recommendation is to see it in person. But it’s also partly a matter of knowing when it was used. Celluloid was very popular during the first 2/3s of the 20th century, and used by most if not all cutleries. If you see a knife of that age with synthetic covers there’s a very good chance they are made from celluloid. Other synthetics were used, but celluloid was by far the most prevalent. Around mid 1960s Delrin started to replace celluloid, but it wasn’t like flipping a switch. Many cutleries continued to use both celluloid and Delrin. Until acrylics came into use (about the last 20 years or so) there was no good substitute for the look and versatility of celluloid for handle covers.

Everyone wants a shortcut to learning. In this case it’s not as easy as simply asking a question here and getting an answer. There is no substitute for examining and handling lots of knives, and learning about them from the dealers and collectors who have them. Studying pictures of them can help, but only if you look at a LOT of them and it’s still not a good substitute for in-person examination.

Keep looking. One day you’ll have an epiphany.

Ken