The All Scout Knives Thread

[Ivoryman]

Oh my bad ! Let me know when you want it

Woops, actually it's my bad ..... I have the CFG knife with the nail file (see pic below)............

its the 2-bladed BSA NYKCo #1450 with the clip & unusual "implement blades" in bone that you are holding for me in your collection......my bad .........I'm ready to be the next caretaker anytime you are ready to let it go!

Sweet one there. Excellent bones. You have a great group of beauties.

[ronfish]

Cool knives indeed. Here is one of mine.

[Ridgegrass]

That one is "first class"! J.O'.

[bestgear]

Cool knives indeed. Here is one of mine. IMG_0999.jpeg

love it Ron - she’s earned a front row in the display case - well done.

[Ripster]

Was out with the wife and one of our boys and stopped in Hudson , Wi. For a stroll along the Mississippi River. Happened upon this monument stone at a park . Thought some of you might be interested in this so snapped a pic . And a couple of pictures of some older Camillus knives. Is the Sword Brand a legitimate Scout knife or ?

[Dan In MI]

A very neat old scout, JO!

[Ridgegrass]

Thanx Dan.
Nice ones Rip. L.O'.

[ronfish]

Very cool Rip, love the monument and knives.

[Mumbleypeg]

Is the Sword Brand a legitimate Scout knife or ?

If by “legitimate scout knife” you mean was it an official BSA authorized knife, the answer is no. The pattern became popularized largely due to the popularity of the scouting movement, and changing demographics of the time. For about 30 years after its beginning in 1910 the BSA tried to protect unauthorized use of terms like “Boy Scout”, “Be Prepared”, etc, while at the same time many companies tried to use those terms to market products. The BSA wanted royalties for use of their name and slogans, and threats of legal action were made in the attempt to protect their “brands”. After WWII, it seems the BSA pretty much gave up trying. With so many violators, it was an endless uphill battle. Today the term “scout pattern” is generic for the utility/camper pattern. My observation is that most official Scout knives have the BSA emblem prominently displayed somewhere, like the shield and/or blade etch. If you want more details you may find this older post in this thread, along with the ensuing posts helpful viewtopic.php?p=656092#p656092

Thanks for the interesting picture of the plaque and its inscription.

Ken

[Ripster]

Is the Sword Brand a legitimate Scout knife or ?

If by “legitimate scout knife” you mean was it an official BSA authorized knife, the answer is no. The pattern became popularized largely due to the popularity of the scouting movement, and changing demographics of the time. For about 30 years after its beginning in 1910 the BSA tried to protect unauthorized use of terms like “Boy Scout”, “Be Prepared”, etc, while at the same time many companies tried to use those terms to market products. The BSA wanted royalties for use of their name and slogans, and threats of legal action were made in the attempt to protect their “brands”. After WWII, it seems the BSA pretty much gave up trying. With so many violators, it was an endless uphill battle. Today the term “scout pattern” is generic for the utility/camper pattern. My observation is that most official Scout knives have the BSA emblem prominently displayed somewhere, like the shield and/or blade etch. If you want more details you may find this older post in this thread, along with the ensuing posts helpful viewtopic.php?p=656092#p656092

Thanks for the interesting picture of the plaque and its inscription.

Ken

Thank you Ken for the detailed response.

[Ridgegrass]

Here's a SCHRADE 778 with the official emblem. Didn't see SCHRADE on KJ's list? Maybe they weren't sold in Scout stores. Levine lists this knife in his "Official" group. J.O'.

[ronfish]

Here's a SCHRADE 778 with the official emblem. Didn't see SCHRADE on KJ's list? Maybe they weren't sold in Scout stores. Levine lists this knife in his "Official" group. J.O'.

Schrade made a couple of official BSA knives, two pen knives specifically. This one is BSA #1060 (c1970’s)and one with a brown stag handle BSA #1043 (c1960’s).

[Ridgegrass]

Thanks Ron. Just wondered why KJ left them of his list. He was a very astute guy. I know George Schrade made a chow kit too. J.O'.

[ronfish]

This knife is listed in both of the primary scout knife resources that we BSA knife collectors (addicts) use: Joseph Kerr's "600 Scout Knives", and Ed Holbrook's "Official Scout Knives"

[Mumbleypeg]

Thanks Ron. Just wondered why KJ left them of his list. He was a very astute guy. I know George Schrade made a chow kit too. J.O'.

If you’re referring to the link I posted, that post was from member thefarside in response to a question from Roland (KJ). Note the disclaimer he added “ Please understand this information should NOT be looked upon as the gospel”.

Those books Ron listed above are the most definitive and inclusive resources available to collectors of scout knives. Although they’re both becoming a little dated but are good for anything pre-2000 timeframe or thereabouts.

Ken

[Ridgegrass]

Thanks Ken.
Ron, Are you a Girl Scout knife collector too? I posted a question about a chow set. Did you see it? O'.

[ronfish]

I don’t really collect girl knives but know many collectors who collect both. I do know a lot about them, I just don’t collect them.

[Ridgegrass]

Turns out that Girl Scout Chow Kit was legit. Thanks Ronfish and all. J.O

[Vit_213]

Need help from BSA knife experts.
I have an Official BSA 1502 Ulster Brand knife. By all indications, it belongs to the time period 1927-1940 (long screwdriver, short bail, 2-pc. CO). But it has an interesting feature that puzzled me - on the shield the eagle’s head faces in a different direction, unlike the BSA emblem.
I have seen many photos of BSA Ulster knives, but in them the eagle was looking in the right direction.
I have two questions: when was this made and why?

[Ridgegrass]

That's an odd one J.O'.

[ScoutKnives]

I believe in the book of 600 scout knives he writes about the different shields where he describes the eagle looking over the left or right shoulders and dates them as well .
I have a few just like yours .

Mike

Need help from BSA knife experts.
I have an Official BSA 1502 Ulster Brand knife. By all indications, it belongs to the time period 1927-1940 (long screwdriver, short bail, 2-pc. CO). But it has an interesting feature that puzzled me - on the shield the eagle’s head faces in a different direction, unlike the BSA emblem.
I have seen many photos of BSA Ulster knives, but in them the eagle was looking in the right direction.
I have two questions: when was this made and why?

[Vit_213]

I believe in the book of 600 scout knives he writes about the different shields where he describes the eagle looking over the left or right shoulders and dates them as well .
I have a few just like yours .

Mike

I have this book. Quote:
"Note that the head or the eagle on the shield points in different directions in the various versions, but the reason for the change is unknown. It appears that until 1927? the eagle pointed right when the Divine name appeared on the blade; thereafter the orientation is mixed."

I see a statement of fact, but the description is very uncertain.
I had hoped that since this book was published in 1997, collectors had found more detailed information. And I really wanted to read some interesting story, something in the style of the Masonic Boy Scouts .

[ScoutKnives]

It’s probably more on the line of the guy designing the shields that month was dyslexic

[Ridgegrass]

Or a socialist! J.O'.

[bestgear]

Need help from BSA knife experts

I'm not sure this will answer your questions Vitaly but it's one man's ponderings that might stimulate further dialogue on the subject. I searched all my Scouting sources and I too have no definitive fact-based reason why the eagle faces both left and right with versions produced in the same timeframe. A reasonable person could easily believe that the dies used to stamp shields were designed and fabricated by Ulster in-house and possibly both left and right-facing eagle dies were commissioned and used to stamp shields, perhaps aligning to a production line or crew.

In researching this matter, I found that from 1915-1924, the eagle heads for both Life and Star insignia ranks faced right. After the first Eagle cloth badge was issued in 1924 whose Eagle's head faced left, the Life and Star badges were redesigned to face left along with all the other ranks. This change happened in the same timeframe that Ulster started to manufacture a 4-bladed knife with a 1-piece can opener, #1502. It could be that Ulster was preparing for the BSA rank insignia change and that both eagle-facing dies were designed, fabricated, and used to stamp Official Scout knife shields.

Finally, my research found that in heraldry, the symbol in a figure's right hand is more significant than the one in its left hand. All dies of the Seal of the President have the eagle facing the olive branch on its right side further emphasizing the power of peace. It is not true that the eagle on the Seal of the President faces the arrows during wartimes. Lastly, when used traditionally, the eagle's head faces towards the olive branch side indicating a preference for peace over war. Conversely, when the eagle’s head faces towards the direction of arrows, this is reputed to be an indication of war. I don’t believe that the Eagle on the Ulster BSA shields in question has an olive branch or arrows in its talons.

Hope this helps my friend.