GUB'MENT ISSUE KUTMASTER

[Ridgegrass]

Bought this today in Pocomoke City, MD., c.1950's (?) KUTMASTER Stockman. Blade etched."PROPERTY OF U.S. GOVT." Wondering if anyone has seen that before? First one for me. Who or what agency would have been issued pocketknives? Forest Service? USDA? Any info welcomed. Thanks , J.O'.

[Ripster]

Bought this today in Pocomoke City, MD., c.1950's (?) KUTMASTER Stockman. Blade etched."PROPERTY OF U.S. GOVT." Wondering if anyone has seen that before? First one for me. Who or what agency would have been issued pocketknives? Forest Service? USDA? Any info welcomed. Thanks , J.O'.

Ridge, think it’s this one here in Silveys book . Nice save ,been looking for these for awhile ,they’re getting harder to find. Yours looks to be a older one though,and not sure what branch was issued that one you have ,would like to know as well .

[XX Case XX]

Ridge, think it’s this one here in Silveys book

Ripster:

Can you tell me the title of the book in that picture? Thanks.

___________
Mike

[Ripster]

Bought this today in Pocomoke City, MD., c.1950's (?) KUTMASTER Stockman. Blade etched."PROPERTY OF U.S. GOVT." Wondering if anyone has seen that before? First one for me. Who or what agency would have been issued pocketknives? Forest Service? USDA? Any info welcomed. Thanks , J.O'.

Ridge, think it’s this one here in Silveys book . Nice save ,been looking for these for awhile ,they’re getting harder to find. Yours looks to be a older one though,and not sure what branch was issued that one you have ,would like to know as well .

Here’s the knife I believe.
The book is Mike Silveys

[doglegg]

Great pick up JO. On the look out for one of those.
And that is a very useful book.

[Ridgegrass]

Thanks fellers, Still be nice to know who used them. Kinda smells like "pork", doesn't it. J.O'.

[Papa Bones]

I have one that is an Ulster 3-7/8" Trapper. Although the knife is in great shape, the print is weak. It's in my edc rotation. Now for the backstory on the print or etch on the blades. But first some history. A little long but bear with me.

In 1977 after 4 years in the Army, I was fortunate to get a Civil Service job at Anniston Army Depot. It is a Tracked Vehicle Rebuild Center, which also has a large Small Arms Rebuild Shop, and a large Ammo Storage Area. We worked directly under The Department of Defense, Tank Automotive Command. Most of the shops and the jobs, we had a standardized tool and equipment listing of items we could sign for or "Check Out" from a building which was the Tool Issue Branch that we generically called "The Tool Crib" and safety equipment come from the "Safety Office." All items, tools, materials, even office items, all come from a Department of the Government Called The GSA "Government Services Administration. Within the GSA, for all Government Departments, there is a GSA Catalog, which has the listings of items, along with National Stock Numbers, normanclature (name), and cost of items that can be ordered for each government agency, which includes Army Depots. This is not to be confused with the T.O.E. or Unit Lever equipment requirements for Army, Navy Marine, Air Force, or Coast Guard Issues. Different department. This included certain pocket knives that could be justified within certain departments. The Electricians Knife with blade and Screwdriver, Rope Knives including the Mariners Knife and Marlin Spike, and also certain pocket knives. Now, these were not Free Issue. You had to sign for them and they were a part of your tool listing that you had to inventory each year, sign for again, and if you moved to a different directorate, any tools that changed had to be turned in. You also had to turn in the items when you retired. But the neat thing was, you wore out a tool, you just turned it in and exchanged it for a new one. While I was there, each knife or tool item, was etched with the cost center of the shop it was going to. Example: one of the shops I worked for, the Cost Center Code was 52J70. So the tool or knife would usually have "J70" scribe on it. So the Tool & Parts attendants that worked for The Tool Crib besides stocking and issue of Tools and Equipment had the job of inscribing the Cost Center on the items with one of those electric vibration scribes. But......... there were still a few knives that were in the inventory that were marked with the Property of U.S. Government in inventory. But by the late 1970's these were gone.

Now Jump back to 1965. I say this because a friend of mine who retired in 2015, started working in the Tool Issue Branch in 1965. I called him the other day asking about these knives. He said that he thought most of them were from the late 1950's into the early 60's. At that time, probably within the requirements of the contract with the maker, these came with the "Property Of U.S. Government" marking on the blades. But by 1970, and probably through a different contract, and probably also as a cost saving, the "Property of U.S. Government was dropped from the knives. In the 70's a change of accountability and inventory requirements were put in the "DMWR Regulations" or Depot Maintenance Work Requirements and the "NMWR" National Maintenance Work Requirements" concerning accountability. Hence, in the 1970's was when they started inscribing the work center codes somewhere on the knife at the Depot Level. Also, and I can attest, that by 1990, the types of pocket knives you could sign out had been reduced to only the Electricians Knife, and if you worked in the Uphostery or Cable shop, you could get a rope knife. All others could only sign out a box cutter, a single blade Stanley Razor Knife.

So basically to sum it up. These knives were Government Contract Knives, that were at one time within the G.S.A. Catalogs, and were most likely a late 50's early 60's contract.

Here is the picture of mine.

[Ridgegrass]

Thanks Smitty, that was very informative. Wonder how they got on the market? Discontinued? Surplused? Did you ever carry one in your job? J.O'.

[Ridgegrass]

By the way, the "etch" is not real strong. I lightly cleaned mine up last night and I believe it got lighter. J.O'.

[Papa Bones]

Thanks Smitty, that was very informative. Wonder how they got on the market? Discontinued? Surplused? Did you ever carry one in your job? J.O'.

All items the government used as far as tools, equipment, knives, ect. have a re-utilization code that goes on the property books and on your tool and equipment listing. This was a simple code, (R) for reuse if it was still in usable condition, and (X) if it was expendable item. Once you turned it in, it was up to the Tool issue branch to determine if it was to be re-utilized or scrapped. If it was an item with an (X) it was automatically scrapped when turned in. Items that had a (R) code could be maintained in the inventory for re-issue if it was still in serviceable condition after being inspected. If the item was no longer listed in the Depot Maintenance Work Requirements catalogs then these items were then placed into containers and sent to a Department across the installation which was called (DRMO) The Defense Re-utilization and Marketing Office. Items that were deemed still serviceable, would be placed on a free issue listing sent to all government agencies who could then order the items if they could be used elsewhere. If they were not requested over a time period, then they would be categorized surplus and put up for Auction on certain days of the year. You can still see this today through sights like Govplanet.com. The same goes with old slings, magazines, and brass casings, ect. that you would find in surplus stores, and such. Even fluids like oils that had a warehouse storage date that had expired would be put through the same process. But I believe now The Defense Re-utilization and Marketing Office is now changed to the Defense Logistics Agency Disposition Services in 2010 and some regulations changed on what could be sold at auction or de-militarized and destroyed.

Before these changes, a lot of items like tools and knives were put up for auction. So this is how some knives, bayonets, and tools became available to the public. There used to be a guy that used to set up at one of my States largest trade day that used to sell mostly tools and rifle accoutrements which he would travel around to government auctions to acquire. At that time, the government used to buy a lot of tools from Proto, Snap-on, and Craftsman, which was great. Because with Craftsman, even if they were wore out, you could exchange them at Sears.

Hope this helps.

[Ridgegrass]

Whew!! Thanks again. J.O'.

[Colonel26]

J.O. That’s a great old knife.

[Dan In MI]

I believe now The Defense Re-utilization and Marketing Office is now changed to the Defense Logistics Agency Disposition Services in 2010 and some regulations changed on what could be sold at auction or de-militarized and destroyed.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the rules for de-militarization, surplusing, etc. have changed. The government did indeed buy a lot of Snap-On tools; I used some of them when working in USS Peleliu's Aircraft Intermediate Maintenance Department. (Luckily, the two times I had to submit a broken tool report, the ship was in homeport.) The Navy may have issued knives to Boatswain's Mates back then, but I purchased my Case 62146 in USS Peleliu's ship's store.

And that is indeed a great old Stockman. Looks like it has a little character and is still capable if working hard!

[Ridgegrass]

It's retired now to the cave. Maybe we can get it a pension! Thanks all. J.O'.

[davidblackshoes]

I have that Kutmaster knife. I think we may actually have several, but I'd have to look. It was my father's. It came from the Naval Air Development Center (NADC) Johnsville. He worked there as a civilian after the war (he was Army, overseas for 3 years. Arrived in N Africa '43, came home from Berlin end of Dec '45). He was Reserve after discharge, then worked for the Navy at Johnsville. He was there when the Mercury 7 trained in the centrifuge and we have photos of the 7.
Very nice knife you have. Congratulations on the find.

[Ridgegrass]

David B: . Thanks for the story and the compliment. Look what one old knife can elicit from this crowd. J.O'.

[Jim-p]

I have just got one of these in an auction job-lot, the etching is very faint and the springs are weak apart from that it is in very good condition.
Probably came from one of the American air bases over here. I’m in the UK

[orvet]

Here is one I had with a USN etch.
I believe it was made after WWII.

[Dan In MI]

That knife has tremendous appeal to this squid!

[Ridgegrass]

Doglegg: Check your PM's. O'.

[Miller Bro's]

Here's an unusual one with the "Property of U.S. Government" etch, I have another one unused without the etch.

So they must have sold them to the general public on the retail market. No makers mark on the government marked knife but the unmarked one was made by Kayser in Germany.

[Ridgegrass]

MB: Is that a printer's tool/knife? Nice one. J.O'.

[doglegg]

Wow, Miller Bro's, never seen one like that before. Great find.

[Miller Bro's]

MB: Is that a printer's tool/knife? Nice one. J.O'.

Not sure, no one has definitively identified it's official use that I know of.

[Miller Bro's]

Wow, Miller Bro's, never seen one like that before. Great find.

Thanks