E.C. Simmons question

[tvic]

I stopped in an old hardware store in the North Carolina mountains recently. He had a decent selection of knives - some tactical, some China, and a dozen or so Case knives. Nothing that looked like it really had any age on it. One was an E.C. Simmons knife with “E.C. Simmons, St. Louis, Mo.” on the tang. I find it hard to believe this was an old knife, and I can’t find any info on the web to satisfy my curiosity. Would this knife have really been a USA made knife?

[edge213]

I stopped in an old hardware store in the North Carolina mountains recently. He had a decent selection of knives - some tactical, some China, and a dozen or so Case knives. Nothing that looked like it really had any age on it. One was an E.C. Simmons knife with “E.C. Simmons, St. Louis, Mo.” on the tang. I find it hard to believe this was an old knife, and I can’t find any info on the web to satisfy my curiosity. Would this knife have really been a USA made knife?

Would need to see the knife.
There were USA made knives with the E. C. Simmons tang stamp.
Simmons sold to Shapleigh in about 1940.
There are newer knives made in China with the Simmons stamp.

[Reverand]

Frost Cutlery has the rights to the EC Simmons name, and makes the knives in China. I had one a couple of years ago that I bought at the Frost factory store in Ooltewah. If I remember correctly it even says St Louis MO on the tang stamp.
It was a decent knife, equivalent to a Rough Ryder.
I will look and see if I can find it, to see if it looks familiar to you.

[tvic]

Thanks, guys! Can’t remember the price, but it wasn’t high, and I just didn’t trust it, so I didn’t buy it.

[Rough Ryder]

I know this is an old question but I recently bought one on eBay thinking it was made in Saint Louis because seller was not clear about the listing.

These are in fact Frost family knives made in China. The Quality is very good. It is equivalent to Rough Rider as has been said.

I wasn’t aware that they were remaking E.C. Simmons. I didn’t think it was popular enough to bother with as far as name recognition goes.

[Mumbleypeg]

I wasn’t aware that they were remaking E.C. Simmons. I didn’t think it was popular enough to bother with as far as name recognition goes.

There is a significant segment of knife-buying customers who do know, and have heard of, old respected cutlery and hardware names. Frost and SMKW have acquired the rights to many revered cutlery names from the past, and are selling such knives stamped with those names, but manufactured in China. You can find the knives all over sites like eBay, and in the catalogs mailed en mass by SMKW etc. Either the listings and ad materials don’t say, or the knives are represented as “reproductions”. I have to ask “reproductions of what?” Rarely if ever are they patterns that were ever made by the company name stamped on the tang. They’re counting on the customer not knowing that, or not caring.

Their sales materials don't make it easy to determine the fact that the knives are made in (Communist) China. That they’re not proud of that, to me at least, says a lot. JMO

Ken

[Reverand]

I bought a yellow-handled EC Simmons at the Frost Cutlery store near Chattanooga TN several years ago. They are comparable to Rough Riders. It is a sturdy knife, but I have become more of a knife snob in my old age so I no longer carry it.
It does bother me that they use the names of old cutlery companies. At least with their Steel Warrior line you will not get confused about the age or origin of the knife. I know that they bought the rights and it is legal, but I still don't like the practice.
But, if you want an inexpensive knife to use and abuse, it will cut!

[Rough Ryder]

I wasn’t aware that they were remaking E.C. Simmons. I didn’t think it was popular enough to bother with as far as name recognition goes.

There is a significant segment of knife-buying customers who do know, and have heard of, old respected cutlery and hardware names. Frost and SMKW have acquired the rights to many revered cutlery names from the past, and are selling such knives stamped with those names, but manufactured in China. You can find the knives all over sites like eBay, and in the catalogs mailed en mass by SMKW etc. Either the listings and ad materials don’t say, or the knives are represented as “reproductions”. I have to ask “reproductions of what?” Rarely if ever are they patterns that were ever made by the company name stamped on the tang. They’re counting on the customer not knowing that, or not caring.

Their sales materials don't make it easy to determine the fact that the knives are made in (Communist) China. That they’re not proud of that, to me at least, says a lot. JMO

Ken

I know E.C. Simmonds from my ace collecting days. I thought i found an original pocket knife from a less well known brand. I will say the pivs and description led me to think it was the real deal. I have no idea what a real one would be worth. I think i paid $25. I didnt think i was getting a steal. I just thought i was buying an interesting old knife. There is a sucker born every minute i guess. Im that sucker. Lol.

[QTCut5]

Here's one I bought because of the stag, not because of the name on the tang stamp. At the time I bought it, I had never heard of E.C. Simmons Hardware branded knives so I was under no illusions about what I was buying; as far as I was concerned, it was just a knife with nice stag and interesting tang stamps. It wasn't until I researched the name on AAPK that I realized this knife was not exactly what it purported itself to be as far as age. Didn't change how I felt about it, though, because it was a well made knife. Based on the stamp, I assumed it was made in Germany, but that could be deceptive or misleading as well for all I know. Also don't know how or if "Simmons Hardware Co." is related to "E.C. Simmons Hardware"

[Dinadan]

Rough Ryder and Q, those are still pretty cool knives regardless of when and where they were made. I do not think that the original Simmons Co actually had a knife factory, so even then someone else would have made them.

When I first starting seeing the old US and German stamps on knives coming out of China it did bother me. Now I just accept that times change. I agree with RR that Simmons is obscure enough that I am surprised Frost chose to use that stamp.

I recently got a Simmons knife that has the same tang stamp and shield as Rough Ryder's, but the blade is marked China.

[Mumbleypeg]

AAPK is a wonderful resource for researching knives, and brand histories, regardless of the brand name. For example a keyword search here for “Simmons” finds 86 pages of posts that mention Simmons. If you limit the search to posts having “Simmons” in the title only, there are 3 pages. Not bad for an “obscure” brand.

In those posts you can find that E.C. Simmons was a hardware firm started in Saint Louis in 1890. E. C. Simmons and Simmons Hardware are the same company (at some point they changed the company name). “Keen Kutter” was their premium brand of tools, including cutlery. “Hornet” was another brand they owned.

There is also discussion about James Parker’s claim to have found a bunch of old Simmons Hornet parts (one of his infamous “warehouse finds” ), which he sent off to Germany and had assembled into knives. They were sold through SMKW. And more about knives stamped E.C. Simmons and Simmons Hardware being made in China by Frost Cutlery.

Ken