NEW YORK KNIFE CO.

[upnorth]

It seemed we were going off topic in the historical building etc. topic. I'd like to add some New York examples to the discussion of NY tangs etc. which was started in that other thread. I get different opinions as to when the stamps were used, so any comments are appreciated.
To spice things up we have an etch here, and a rare locking punch knife.

[Mossdancer]

Hi Upnorth;
You seem to have been around NY knife a lot. Can you or anyone tell me how many zillion of these were made and maybe even a timeline on it.
wb

[upnorth]

I've never seen that stamp before Mossdancer, but I don't see many pieces of table cutlery. I'm hoping for more info on New York Knife myself! Anyone else???

[lt632ret]

When NYK moved to Walden in 1856 They began making kitchen cutlery. In fact kitchen cutlery was certainly one of the mainstays of there business . People did not collect them then they used them . These originally were produced by the water power of the Wallkill river which would be diverted off high falls ( also called Arnold falls ) into a brick chute this force was then used to power the machines. At first almost directly and then later electrically. These were utilitarian tools and were made by many of the knife companies. While NYK produced tons of these relatively few survived. People used them a lot and when they broke or got lost they threw them out. They were made under several markings and several lines . Which if anyone cares I can go into later. These were made in the styles of the day which meant originally 3 bladed forks and big wide blades pewter bolsters and made with one rivit and or two. These had either white or dyed smooth bone handles. These as in most mfg were fancier in the beginning and then got plainer. While there is a collector market for old kitchen cutlery and while some collectors specialize in one or two brands. it seems very few people saved or collected NYK so finding specimens is and has been for some time quite rare. Unless of course you happen to know a fanatic who has collected them for 50 years. I know of one such person I see him in the mirror when I brush my teeth in the morning . Yes amazingly even with my attitude and life style I still have my teeth. After the civil war perhapes 1870 or 1880 ??? they went to 4 bladed forks. Various other changes took place as well, NYK closed in or about 1930. The time line included changing the pewter bolsters to steel going to celluloid handles making picnic sets. They also changed the blade style from the broad rounder old style to the more recognizable thinner tapered version. I have included pics from a display in my dining room ( you made me go into another room for this and I was still working on showing a different room ). They even had an embossed metal handled version ( see pics ) that imitated jigged bone. I have included pics that show this entire time line and the examples of the various styles patterns and changes this segment of cutlery history went through with this company. Around 5 years ago when things were happier myself and two friends had a dig down at the old ruins site. This could really only be done correctly during late summer in a very dry year. For the first time we brought a metal detector. We found numerous round mill stones of various sizes when the company was done with them they just threw them into the river. Then at 55 and 350 pounds we hand hauled them up the Wallkill gorge. (But that is another story and a funny one if you feel clumsy is funny). Using the metal dectector we found various old artifacts among them was some old webbing ( webbing is what is left after you punch out a blade blank ( like cookie dough after you cut the cookies out ). After I identified what it was I vacuumed sealed it and have also included a pic of this display. They have since dreged the area and rebuilt the bridge so I have no idea if anything is left or what they found when I heard they were going to do this I implored them to try to save some of the stuff they found . They thought it was quite a humorous idea.

Now lets get back to your knife your marking is one of the 3 or four or perhapes more they used your knife is a later post 1900 version probably 1910 to 1930. ( This is shown by the blade style and the bolsters. ) Your knife does not have original handles this is evidenced by the rivits as well as the handle material. If You look at this style in the pics you will see a lot from this era had celluloid handles I would say the most logical scenario was that the cell went bad or the handle broke and someone felt it important enough to rehandle. Rivets are definitely wrong check out all the pics when they used rivets the used the same style ones in the pics for 80 years. The prove this point even further I added a pic of an NYK hardware display knife ( this is a real knife ) they hung in hardware stores. I have seen them bring 2000 plus. Just in case you have one. In any event check the rivets same as the kitchen cutlery. Like I said if there is an interest I will take these down and show the blades tangs other wise you probably have had enough and are sorry you asked the question the way I run on and babble. NOTE there are 3 forks in one pic ( the first pic I think? ) that are not NYK I just needed a place to put them and while doing the display it was convienient the rest under various stamps are NYK. I did not answer this last night since I did not want to usurp the thread. I hope this answers your question ( and I hope you are still awake after reading it. ). If for some reason you want to know more just let me know I can take the displays down as i said. I hope this helps LT.

[lt632ret]

A few more pics as they are displayed. Enough rhetoric in the prior post.

[Mossdancer]

LT;
Thank You; Your brand of rhetoric is effective and most enjoyable. It is definitely not grandiloquent as some refer to rhetoric.
W.B.

Edited for spelling.

[upnorth]

Great array of table cutlery, LT! What wonderful decoration for a dining room!! Your house must be nearly museum status!
Do you have any cooking cutlery to show us also? The knives I use the most in this world are for food prep, and a good chef's knife is a beautiful thing. I gave all my carbon steel Sabatiers etc. to my sister-in-law 25 years ago in favor of stainless, because of less than careful housemates, and I pine for them on occassion. In practice though, modern stainless is good stuff if you choose it carefully.
It would be nice to cook a few meals with some historic cutlery, though (sigh)!

[sunburst]

Your house must be nearly museum status!

That the exact thought I was thinking !!! LT don't take this the wrong way because I mean it as a compliment but you could give tours to folks and not have to worry about work, pensions or retirement pay...Heck you might even attract some fine looking ladies to your house with that killer kitchen cutlery..

[lt632ret]

I give tours and have, to several folks on this forum as well as others. As I have said I have offered to make most everything available for posterity. I only wish a clarification ( referring to the bill I have in the NYS legislature ) on some of the present laws which now remain so nebulous as to be able to be subject to individual interpretation of any represenative of any enforcment agency. often ending with artifacts being confiscated lost stolen or mutilated. Apparently this is much to difficult for our political represenatives or elected officials to acomplish for a meager million dollars worth of irreplacable artifacts. That in some cases represents history there own familys and friends helped create. My cost in state of the art security and insurance is substancial. Still I have no need to ask for any grants or other donations to make these items available to the public. Simply a declarative statement of what the present laws actually mean. instead of there being interpreted in various ways by individual whim or agenda.

I did not mean to intimate that I had any care about pensions or retirment pay frankly while I spent a lot of my life being very rich but financially truly broke. I now could care less about money or doing or getting whatever I want. If i really wanted to go to Tahiti it would pose no problem to go tomorrow and have pints of Guiness in Dublin the next day if I choose. Money is not a problem ( and I did not want it to seem it was ) However I now find myself poor in the sense that I was rich, when I had no money. ( ie family ect)

There are times I have won and lost more money on a poker table in one night that some people work 10 years to see. The problem is with the beauracratic system that dosen't even understand the questions and is making decisions on rhe answers.

I have said it before the time may very well come when I sell it all or dig a hole filled it with history and 10 gallons of gasoline .

I kid about females but frankly money won't buy you love but what it does buy ain't bad and it sure comes with a lot less baggage. As you said Charlie these knives are decorations or historical displays. much the same as your or my pocket knives. I think presently I eat with a plastic handled imperial picnic set and most of my kitchen knives are various ones Schrade and imperial produced. It is not difficult to go out and buy a new kitchen knife of excellant quality however NYK cutlery is a bit more rare. Since the last piece was made 75 years ago. As I said I do not really collect kitchen cutlery I collect historical artifacts from the cutlery industry in the Hudson valley and it would seem I and a few of you good folks are about the only people with an interest in this subject. It is damn sure the politicians do not. Happy New Year to all and remember stay sober one of us should and that only leaves you. LT

[jonet143]

happy new year lt!

[upnorth]

Happy New Year LT!!!
Northern Charlie (the designated driver)!

[orvet]

Once again LT, I am in awe of your collection!
Not only the depth of your collection, but the breadth of it is breathtaking. Those old sets are astonishing. I had no idea that such sets were even made, let alone so many different ones.

Thanks for sharing them with us! It is a great way to start the new year.
Dale

[Rusty1]

Happy New Year LT, All the best. I recently got to see the collection up close, it definitely is, Outstanding.

Rusty1

[Miller Bro's]

New York knife Co. butter knife with jigged bone handles...............


M.B.

[upnorth]

Nice job, MB, digging up this interesting old thread! Sure is better than a bunch of fragmented threads on the same topic!
Cool jigged bone knife - not the norm!

[Miller Bro's]

Charlie,

The jigging on this knife is what caught my attention. It was in a box with 50-60 other old kitchen knives and this one jumped right out at me!

It`s not often you find straight razors, and kitchen cutlery with nice jigged bone handles like the old pocket knives had. Atleast I don`t see very many.

M.B.

[upnorth]

I like to cook, and my favorite paring knife is an old Imperial. It has worn Rodgers bone handles, from the good old days. It has even survived a few inadvertent trips through the dishwasher - not my doing!
It was getting kind of old, so I got Dale (Orvet) to make me some back-ups. He did a super job!
The black micarta one has a lot of miles on it already, and a nice patina (not shown). Thanks again, Dale!

[Miller Bro's]

charlie,

Nice paring knives. Dale did a great job on the new ones, I especially like the jigged bone handle one

Here is an L.F.& C. knife, I picked up the whole set in the box never used while on vacation last fall. Check out the jigged bone handles. Now tell me why didn`t L.F.& C. put that bone on their folding knives Instead of that crappy black imitation celluloid stuff?


M.B.

[RobesonsRme.com]

I see this thread has gotten a little away from the New York Knife Company. I can't do anything toward returning to that topic, so I'll take it a little further afield.

Here's a Robeson set with white bone handles and pewter inlay and tangs. The handles are not as white as they appear in that photo.

I don't know how old they are, but definitely 20th century.

BTW; the bone on those LF&C's is great.

Charlie Noyes

[Miller Bro's]

Charlie,

Nice cutlery set.

What is the stamp on these, any picture?

Do you use them on special occasion?

M.B.

[RobesonsRme.com]

MB;
Here's a scan with the stamp on the knife visible. They're marked, "THE ROBESON CUTLERY CO. / ShurEdge /ROCHESTER, N.Y.". The forks are unmarked, but obviously a matching set.

I found these on Ebay. Had to fight off the re-enactors, but still got them at a low price, $18.00.

Never use them.

I went to a local jeweler and bought two compartmentalized anti-corrosion flannel roll-ups for them. I keep them rolled and tied. I do put them out on my display table at shows. The photo I posted above was a crop of a table shot.

Charlie Noyes

[upnorth]

Well, at least you are still in New York State, Charlie!
Purty set!

[Miller Bro's]

A nice old N.Y. Knife Co. pearl.................

[Cowboy7130]

I don't see any spoons ... didn't anybody use spoons back then??
How did they eat their Cheerios??

[RobesonsRme.com]

Meat and Potatos. Din't eat no stinkin' Cheerios back then.
Charlie Noyes