green bone

[winst]

I have read all the material I can garner concerning "Green" bone and have yet to find a clear answer concerning this concept. Just what is "green" bone?? I see all shades of red, brown, yellow and even some orange hues, being used in handle descriptions as green bone. Is there a dye that was once used to obtain this so-called green bone, if so why do you not see it used now? It has always been my notion that what knifers call green bone is really varying shade of brown or red. Some more near the yellow spectrum, some more near the light tan side of brown. Some with just a tinge of red yet nearer the brown side of shades. It would appear that green bone, is the results of these basic colors going through the aging process of fading with age. I have yet to see a green handle knife of the tested or xx era as a matter of fact I had never seen green handles on a Case knife until Zippo came out with that "frog" green some time ago. If this matter has been resolved in this forum then forget this post.

[1967redrider]

I think the easiest way to identify true Tested Greenbone is to identify what isn't true Tested Greenbone. All of these are Tested era but there's only one that is Greenbone. Wish I had more true Greenbone examples.

[herbva]

I think the easiest way to identify true Tested Greenbone is to identify what isn't true Tested Greenbone. All of these are Tested era but there's only one that is Greenbone. Wish I had more true Greenbone examples.

Those are all real beauties John! I especially like the rough black dogleg 22028 1/2 (5th one down from the top).

[Ridgegrass]

WINST: On this page (KNIFE RELATED Q & A) there's a thread called "Case Green Bone Question" from just this week, same discussion. I agree, "green" bone is a broad description. J.O'.

[1967redrider]

I think the easiest way to identify true Tested Greenbone is to identify what isn't true Tested Greenbone. All of these are Tested era but there's only one that is Greenbone. Wish I had more true Greenbone examples.

Those are all real beauties John! I especially like the rough black dogleg 22028 1/2 (5th one down from the top).

I bet! I think you have an intimate connection with that one.

[herbva]

I thought I posted these, but don't see them. Here are a few of mine that might qualify as "green bone".

[Mumbleypeg]

WINST: On this page (KNIFE RELATED Q & A) there's a thread called "Case Green Bone Question" from just this week, same discussion. I agree, "green" bone is a broad description. J.O'.

To those who know, it's not so broad. No, it's not really green as in St. Patrick's Day, Kelly green, etc. I'm sorry some Case collectors dubbed it as "greenbone" years ago as it has only served to confuse the uneducated, who unfortunately try to find the green color in it. And ever since it became popular enough with collectors to bring an extra few bucks many unscrupulous (or uneducated themselves) sellers have tried to call everything remotely similar from Case and other brands "greenbone".

But once you see the real thing you will always recognize it. Unfortunately words are inadequate to describe it, and in most case photography doesn't do it justice either. As has been advised in the many prior threads on this same topic, get a knowledgeable collector or dealer to show you some honest greenbone.

As for the OP questions, there is a thread here on AAPK on the subject of greenbone discussing dyes and other speculative theories about it. I don't think there exists any definitive documentation about how the color originated, how it was created, why it's not been duplicated (apparently it can't else someone likely would have done so).

Ken

[winst]

Thanks Ken, It would seem to me that green bone is a somewhat malleable concept as is evident when considering its varied applications. It is my notion that green bone is not an original handle color but instead the results of the effects of metamorphosis of the bone and the dye chemicals over time. The effects of sun. light, moisture, heat, handling ..... I find some of this to be evident in knives that have handles that are two tone in color. Some of the bones structure ages faster than the other causing two different phases of green bone on a single handle. Then there are those that are aging that display various phases of brown, red, black ...not quiet reached "green". Then there are those that have reached heaven in their maturity. They display a unique green that radiates excellence in color and age. "COLOR CONCEPTS" Concepts are not to be defined but subject to ones own perceptions.

[woodwalker]

I thought I posted these, but don't see them. Here are a few of mine that might qualify as "green bone".

Those are some kinda FINE knives Herbva!!!

[TPK]

Wow! Great looking knives John & Herb!

[woodwalker]

Here is my meager collection. A 6366, a 6392 and a 61094.

[Jacknifeben]

Here is my green bone Jack Knife Ben.

[Jacknifeben]

Can you tell by the punch blade who made the knife?

[woodwalker]

I dont know who made it, but I do know I like it!! cool old knife!!

[Ridgegrass]

OK, I'm still somewhat at sea on the "Green bone" moniker. Is is an official Case nomenclature from their ads at the time ? Did they advertise it as "Green bone" or is it a mostly a collectors' term? If not, who made up the name? Houston Price writes that is was used 1940-1955. Maybe someone in the know can answer that question. I'm certainly familiar with the material and owned quite a few of them.
just wondering where the term originated? A minor point of interest I guess. J.O'.

[gsmith7158]

OK, I'm still somewhat at sea on the "Green bone" moniker. Is is an official Case nomenclature from their ads at the time ? Did they advertise it as "Green bone" or is it a mostly a collectors' term? If not, who made up the name? Houston Price writes that is was used 1940-1955. Maybe someone in the know can answer that question. I'm certainly familiar with the material and owned quite a few of them.
just wondering where the term originated? A minor point of interest I guess. J.O'.

It is a term that was coined by collectors. Case never advertised their knives as green bone or red bone. It was simply called original bone by Case.

[Ridgegrass]

Thanks Greg. A lot. J.O'.

[Mumbleypeg]

This thread is a good example of the confusion and often misconstrued use of the term "green bone" (or alternately "greenbone") as it relates to the color of bone found in knives made by Case during the Tested (primarily) and early XX time period.

Some of the readers of this will no doubt think I am arrogant or rude by writing this post - that's not at all my intent. I'm just trying to explain why there is so much confusion and controversy about the term. Folks who take things literally, and insist if it's called green therefore it has to be green, will possibly never understand it.

The subject has been repeatedly hashed and re-hashed here on AAPK. Invariably in those threads, despite the definition of the term having been explained, sooner or later along comes a post of a knife that does not fit the description (in this thread, the knife posted by jacknifeben). It's indeed a nice old knife, having handles containing color that is more green than Case "greenbone". Even though the knife has color that is in fact green, IMHO THE KNIFE IS NOT AN EXAMPLE OF GREENBONE! At least not in the context of the OP question as I understand it.

As stated in a prior post in this thread, I personally wish Case collectors years ago had not dubbed it green bone. But they did, and there's nothing we can do to change that now. I'm understanding why some collectors insist if it's not Case, it can't be green bone. The term “green bone” was created before Case started producing knives that in fact really do have intentionally and truly green bone, marketed as such with names like “Bermuda Green, “Kelly Green” etc. That is another factor causing even more confusion. Keep in mind though that those knives did not exist until long after the "green bone" term was created.

It may help to restrict the definition of “green bone” to Case, and to the time before Case (and subsequently others) started intentionally making and marketing knives with different bone colors. At the least it will perhaps help your understanding why collectors coined the term. Prior to Case's introduction of Appaloosa Bone in the late 1970s, neither Case nor to my recollection any others, intentionally made or marketed specific colors of bone. Bone was bone. It might be jigged in different patterns like Rogers or Winterbottom but color was not marketed as a differentiator (exceptions might be undyed white, or "natural" bone from some makers. )

So back when collectors, especially those collectors of Case, for purposes of communicating with others began describing the various subtle differences in bone colors that had been unintentionally produced over the years, eventually began describing the bone colors as "red", "brown", "pretty", "green", (none of those descriptions were created or marketed by Case - you will not find them in old catalogs or literature). Since what collectors called “green bone” tended to be seen in older knives (mostly from the Tested era) they typically brought a premium price. Seeing that price premium, over time sellers of other brands also began describing their knives as having “green bone”. I’ve seen knives from other makers like Ka-bar, Cattaraugus, Remington and others that have color I would describe as “like Case green bone”.

New collectors having not experienced those "pre-color marketing" days are understandably confused today by knives described as being "green bone", which in reality are not green, because they routinely see knives made with dyes that are in fact really green. Not so with pre-1980 knives.

Sorry for the lengthy post. Hope you're not even more confused.


Ken

[winst]

Thanks Ken, Obviously you have given this topic much time and thought. Scrap my theory of metamorphosis and aging as being factors in the "greening" of bone material. I, like you , have come to except green bone as it is...just another color that I associate with older knives. After near 50yrs. of collecting, selling , swapping.....I have learned just exactly what attributes are present to qualify handles as green bone. I would attest that we are like the auctioneer who can look at a steer and call it's weight to within 20 lbs. We just "know".

[Mumbleypeg]

Actually the thought only recently occurred to me that much of the confusion exists because if you're a newer collector, your perspective is from more recent times when there are bone handle covers that are actually green in color. The idea that everything bone prior to around 1980s was some shade of red or brown is foreign to those newer to the hobby.

It was collectors living in that shades of red/brown era, and trying to communicate to one another the different shades or permutations of red-brown, who created the terms. If you weren't around or weren't collecting when that was the situation, it's understandable that now having seen bone handles dyed "Bermuda Green", blue, yellow, orange, purple etc you'd be totally stumped regarding why people are posting pictures of tanish-brown bone and calling it green!

Once it occurred to me to view it from that perspective, I began to understand their confusion.

Ken

[winst]

Actually the thought only recently occurred to me that much of the confusion exists because if you're a newer collector, your perspective is from more recent times when there are bone handle covers that are actually green in color. The idea that everything bone prior to around 1980s was some shade of red or brown is foreign to those newer to the hobby.

It was collectors living in that shades of red/brown era, and trying to communicate to one another the different shades or permutations of red-brown, who created the terms. If you weren't around or weren't collecting when that was the situation, it's understandable that now having seen bone handles dyed "Bermuda Green", blue, yellow, orange, purple etc you'd be totally stumped regarding why people are posting pictures of tanish-brown bone and calling it green!

Once it occurred to me to view it from that perspective, I began to understand their confusion.

Ken

Kinda like the old hound dog "O" Blue..now who has ever seen a blue dog???