Taking Apart a Boker 9361

[Myron]

I picked up an inexpensive Boker 9361 the other day. My idea was to take it apart, clean it up, and put it back tougher replacing the cheap and ugly black plastic scales with hardwood. I like the jigged Delrin Boker used in the 60's-70's, but this wasn't that -- it's cheap, ugly, and black, and there is no Boker shield or badge on the top scale.

I've never used the razor blade trick to disassemble a knife, so I was excited to try it after learning about it here on AAPK. But unfortunately I couldn't get it to work, and I think I know why. While the center pin is brass, the end pins in this 9361 appear to be steel. Eventually the razor blade shattered, leaving me with no option but to drill out the pins. I trashed the bolsters doing this, so I'll be building the knife back without bolsters.

Does this sound right, or is it likely that I was doing the razor blade trick wrong? I inserted the bade in the center of the knife, then rested it on the top of my partially open vise while tapping on the opposite end of the knife.

Thanks.

Myron

[Reverand]

Your description sounds like the correct way to do it. I have had razor blades shatter when cutting through brass or NS pins (always wear safety glasses!), yet I have also cut through steel pins with one.
The type of razor blade seems to make some difference, but sometimes there is no rhyme or reason to it.
Know this: knife repair can be very addictive! You learn a little bit more on every knife, but keep at it, and have fun with it!

[herbva]

Myron, I don't know what type of razor blades you are using, but I use box cutter blades. They are stronger than conventional blades, but I do occasionally have one break. Yes, it does take a bit longer to cut through the steel pins, but if you are patient the blade eventually gets the job done. When you say that you "trashed" the bolsters, did they just come loose, or something else? I have them come off all the time when I am working on German made knives, and I just solder them back on after I get everything apart. It seems to me that a lot of the German made knives have bolsters that are not very well attached.

[Myron]

Thank you, Herb and Reverand; your info and encouragement are very helpful. The razor blade I was using was a pretty standard trapezoidal-shaped USA-made Craftsman brand. Thin and light for putting into a utility knife. I use them for cutting leather. I really like the idea of a box cutter blade. Great tip.

Regarding the bolsters, I oval-ized the holes a bit drilling the pins out. I still struggle to fasten the knife in my drill press's table vise in a good way that holds it flat but doesn't damage it. And then the surface of the bolster is curved anyway, so the result is a drill bit that can wander. I use a centering bit to minimize drill bit wander and flex, but even still the holes in the bolsters are now pretty ugly.

The bolsters appeared to be held onto the liners via a tiny little stud that was just friction fit into a tiny little hole in the liner. There may have been a magic spell cast at the Boker works that was helping, but the knife is 50-odd years old so its power was diminished.

Yes, I'm already excited about finishing this project and looking forward to the next one. I really like the Böker Classic Gold (a modern limited model 182) with its polished brass pins and desert ironwood scales, so I'm going to build this old 9361 to look like that, minus the bolsters of course. And I need to make a new bail for it as well, so I was thinking of using a stainless steel bicycle wheel spoke.

I will post pictures of this knife when it's all done. And I welcome any advice or tips anyone may have. Thanks!

Thanks again,

Myron

[beresman]

Myron, I'm a relative newbie at this, so my experience is more limited than a lot of folks. Take anything I say with a grain of salt...

I've had the same issue with steel pins and box cutter blades--sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. I broke the bone handle of knife while trying that trick, which made me sad--the handles were what I wanted to keep.

So I've started drilling pins out. I don't even have a drill press; I'm using an electric hand drill with a cobalt bit. What I'll do first is use a center punch to created a starting point for the drill. That works pretty well for me to keep the drill bit where I want it.

And in terms of holding the knife, what I'll do is open my bench vise about 1/4", and fold a paper towel over several times and set it over the jaws of the vise, creating a sort of nest to hold the knife. The amount of opening would depend on the knife, of course. I use one hand to steady the knife and the other to hold the drill. It's tedious, but I've had pretty good results doing it this way.

I suppose that, if I had a drill press, I could create a nest for each knife I work on by using a lump of some kind of water-based clay or thick epoxy that would take a shape and hold it until it cures. Put a bit of Saran Wrap over it and push the knife down to create a cavity the exact shape of the knife. The Saran Wrap keeps the knife from contact with the nest material, of course.

[beresman]

Myron, I don't know what type of razor blades you are using, but I use box cutter blades. They are stronger than conventional blades, but I do occasionally have one break. Yes, it does take a bit longer to cut through the steel pins, but if you are patient the blade eventually gets the job done. When you say that you "trashed" the bolsters, did they just come loose, or something else? I have them come off all the time when I am working on German made knives, and I just solder them back on after I get everything apart. It seems to me that a lot of the German made knives have bolsters that are not very well attached.

Herb, can you please tell me what you do to properly solder the bolsters back on? I have tried it with an old Henckels whittler and not been successful. Anything I use to clamp the bolster to the liner while soldiering acts as a heat sink, of course, and although I have tried pinning the parts to a block of insulating material to keep them aligned, I wasn't able to heat them up enough to get the soldier to flow. Maybe I'm too timid about it, but so far I've not had success.

[herbva]

Myron, I don't know what type of razor blades you are using, but I use box cutter blades. They are stronger than conventional blades, but I do occasionally have one break. Yes, it does take a bit longer to cut through the steel pins, but if you are patient the blade eventually gets the job done. When you say that you "trashed" the bolsters, did they just come loose, or something else? I have them come off all the time when I am working on German made knives, and I just solder them back on after I get everything apart. It seems to me that a lot of the German made knives have bolsters that are not very well attached.

Herb, can you please tell me what you do to properly solder the bolsters back on? I have tried it with an old Henckels whittler and not been successful. Anything I use to clamp the bolster to the liner while soldiering acts as a heat sink, of course, and although I have tried pinning the parts to a block of insulating material to keep them aligned, I wasn't able to heat them up enough to get the soldier to flow. Maybe I'm too timid about it, but so far I've not had success.

Hi Brent. I'm sure there are many ways to do this, but here's what I do. First, I use coarse sand paper and sand both surfaces (inside of the bolster and the area at the end of the liner where the bolster will be attached) so that both surfaces are clean and shiny. Apply flux and tin both surfaces with a very thin coat of solder. If you have added too much solder, which is very easy to do, just file it down, so that you will have a flat surface on both pieces. Find a steel nail or a steel pin that fits tightly fit into the hole in the bolster and insert it into the hole in the bolster and the corresponding hole in the liner (this keeps the bolster in place where it needs to be) and apply a spring clamp. (I use an old steel spring clamp that lost the plastic or rubber end things a long time ago.) Then apply sufficient heat until you see a bead of molten solder squish out around the edge. I use a small jeweler's butane torch because its quicker but I guess that a good hot soldering iron might work. After everything has cooled sufficiently, file or grind off any excess solder on the outside and clean up any residue and/or discoloration from the soldering process. Sometimes when I'm reattaching those hollow bolsters (like on many German knives), they are trickier, and I use 2 clamps to make sure both parts stay put. I do this operation with the liner clamped in a vise, so that both hands are free to do the soldering. I hope this helps.

[BIGHEAD]

I quit using the razor blade method unless it is something I have no other choice. I now use a cast spreader and it will take a knife apart like right now. I take a metal cutting burr and remov the head of one side of the center pin then use a punch to knock it out then spread between bolsters and it is apart. But you have to be careful not to let the spreader slip.

[Myron]

This is all great info! Thanks to everyone for contributing their tips and advice.

@BIGHEAD, I will do some Googling but I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd love to see a picture of your cast spreader in action. I'm over it now, but I felt like a complete idiot when I destroyed the bolsters on my Boker while drilling out the end pins. I've built a bunch of alox-scaled SAKs, but they are much easier with their flat scales that lay flat in a vise and no bolsters to contend with. This Boker has been a learning experience for me, but I'm excited about my ideas for the final outcome. I hope to have it done this coming weekend and will of course post pics here!

Thanks again,

Myron

[Madmarco]

I just Googled "Cast Spreaders" and I must say they look like very handy tools!

[Froe]

Hey Bighead,
Is that one of the three prong cast spreaders or one with two broad flat jaws? I’m intrigued.
Thanks
Froe

[glennbad]

I drill out the pins when I have to try and save the cover material.

Other wise, instead of a razor blade, I use an old kitchen knife blade. It's sturdy enough that the worst it usually does is get a ding in the blade and won't shatter, and I can pound on the blade pretty good with a mallet. If it gets dinged up, I just run it across a sanding belt to flatten the blade out again.

[BIGHEAD]

Hey Bighead,
Is that one of the three prong cast spreaders or one with two broad flat jaws? I’m intrigued.
Thanks
Froe

Yes. A three prong spreader.

If you use one be sure to knock out the tension pin first and try not to let it slip when spreading. Works like a charm.

[Myron]

Thanks BIGHEAD! I can't wait to try this on my next knife. In the meantime, I thought I'd post some pics of my project.

Here is the knife as it came to me. Note the ugly black molded plastic scales:

And here it is on my first test fit. I worked for a solid hour to get the desert ironwood scales into shape, and then went and drilled the end holes in the wrong place. I was using the original brass liner for my template, and marked the bolster holes instead of the swivel pin holes. Looks like I'll be making a new set of scales!

[herbva]

Myron, don't beat yourself up too much. We all make a bonehead mistake once in a while. If you are planning to keep that knife as a user, I wouldn't worry about the holes you drilled in the wrong place. Just fill them in with some epoxy mixed with powder dye of the same color, and finish the project. ( I use this stuff all the time to repair bone chips.) It would be a shame to waste that beautiful iron wood. Send me a PM if you have any questions about the epoxy I use or the technique.

[Madmarco]

One good thing about your mistake Myron, it's one you won't likely make again! Beautiful work so far!

[Reverand]

Myron, don't beat yourself up too much. We all make a bonehead mistake once in a while. If you are planning to keep that knife as a user, I wouldn't worry about the holes you drilled in the wrong place. Just fill them in with some epoxy mixed with powder dye of the same color, and finish the project. ( I use this stuff all the time to repair bone chips.) It would be a shame to waste that beautiful iron wood. Send me a PM if you have any questions about the epoxy I use or the technique.

Ditto. Either fill with epoxy as described, or peen a brass pin in the holes and claim that you did it on purpose!

Those ironwood handles are gorgeous, and it is clear that you spent a lot of quality time on them. Use 'em!

[BIGHEAD]

Thanks BIGHEAD! I can't wait to try this on my next knife. In the meantime, I thought I'd post some pics of my project.

Here is the knife as it came to me. Note the ugly black molded plastic scales:


BE9034EC-7DD3-4181-93E5-04375F19DC82.jpeg

38F9AAED-5EE4-44AC-951A-06974A244DC0.jpeg

85C00C2C-35E9-48BC-BA07-CFB0CC8E5201.jpeg


And here it is on my first test fit. I worked for a solid hour to get the desert ironwood scales into shape, and then went and drilled the end holes in the wrong place. I was using the original brass liner for my template, and marked the bolster holes instead of the swivel pin holes. Looks like I'll be making a new set of scales!


4B7852DE-E141-44D0-BC8F-52DD63315C21.jpeg

A638730F-4823-4084-A0F7-D438ABCD48B3.jpeg

3B5E1831-D2E3-4D90-9E73-28AB63E0C444.jpeg

28876719-1230-465C-BE3B-E35969ACA384.jpeg

Yeah simple mistake. Yesterday I peened a knife together with Mammoth scales the. Realized I forgot to put the center liner back in but was able to get it back apart without damage

[Myron]

Thanks guys. I appreciate the support and encouragement. I slept on it and decided to keep the scales, holes and all. @Reverand I was thinking of "filling" them with brass pin stock, too. @herbva, thank you for the offer! I haven't used epoxy filler before, but this could be a good time to learn.

Thanks again, all. I'll keep updating the thread with my progress and again I really appreciate the support!

[glennbad]

If I kept every mistake knife I did, I wouldn't have room for anything else in my shop!

Treat them all as learning experiences, even the ones that come out well!

[Myron]

Indeed, @glennbad! This one is done, and boy did I learn a lot. Tried making a bail for it, but gave up when I ruined the fourth one as I was just wasting good pin stock.

I used a pin spinner on the pin heads after lightly peening them down to make sure they were expanded. The pin spinner gouged out the wood scales a bit on one, but I didn't mind the countersunk, machined look so I did it to all six.

I filled in the erroneously-drilled scale holes with pin stock that was five thousandths bigger than the hole I drilled. Two went in fine but two cleaved off a little splinter of wood right on the end. I followed @herbva's advice and used some epoxy into which I mixed sanding dust from the scale forming operation. I didn't have time to do research on epoxies, so I used garden variety hardware store brand and it came out fine.

I sanded the scales progressively to 600 grit and then finished off with some Renaissance Wax on a buffing wheel.

Super happy with this outcome, and want to thank everyone who lent support and advice!

Myron

[Reverand]

Now that is a knife to be proud of!
Good save!

[Myron]

Thank you kindly, @Reverand! I had so much fun and learned a ton with this project. I already have my next project in mind, and will be exploring constructing a similar knife, maybe only one layer though, and finishing the pins with a surface flush to the scale's top surface.

And you have to know I'll be using @BIGHEAD's cast spreader tip on the next one too!

Myron

[glennbad]

Very classy looking!

[Myron]

Thanks Glennbad!