Old Pruning and Horticultural Knives

[gino]

Maybe "Klein" made that one???

[jerryd6818]

Maybe "Klein" made that one???

I suppose it could be. The Klein's have shiny blades and Cammillus doesn't BUT the Kleins I've seen have three handle pins and this one only has two. The bail is in the right place for a Klein or Utica but then again, there's that third pin that's missing off mine. Maybe someone will come along that knows more about the hawkbills.

[knife7knut]

I would also say that it was a Klein if only because of the distinctive pattern to the handle material.

[tjmurphy]

Jerry - Is that the one you were going to have reprofiled and rehandled?

[jerryd6818]

I would also say that it was a Klein if only because of the distinctive pattern to the handle material.

Yeah, I think you guys are right. I found a new Klein that only has the two pins like this one so I'm going to settle on Klein. Not a bad buy for five bucks though. The knife is in almost perfect shape. It's just a little dull from light use. A new Klein in this pattern is over $30. BTW, Utica also uses that handle. I'm thinking the Klein's are made by Utica. Opinions? Factual knowledge?

Jerry - Is that the one you were going to have re-profiled and re-handled?

No, T.J. I just bought this one because it was cheap. I have a bid in on another one I may do that to, if I get it. If I don't get the other one, I may go ahead and re-profile/re-handle this one but I'd really rather it be the other one because this one has steel liners and it's a Klein. Not sure I want to put any more money into a Klein.

[gino]

I believe Kleins are still made today but its klein & sons. I done believe Utica ever made Kleins.They are listed as still in business today with no mention ever of utica being a part of the company.

[jerryd6818]

I believe Kleins are still made today but its klein & sons. I done believe Utica ever made Kleins.They are listed as still in business today with no mention ever of utica being a part of the company.

M. Klein & Son, named for old Mathias Klein is today named Klein Tools. Mathias Klein immigrated from Germany to Chicago IL where he set up a blacksmith shop. According to company legend, in 1857 a telegraph worker of the day brought in a broken pair of pliers which Mathias repaired. Supposedly that was the beginnings for one of the largest communications and electrical tool manufacturers in the world.

According to Klein Customer Service, Klein outsources all their knives. Unfortunately the person I talked to was unable to provide the name of the company Klein contracts with for their knives. There may be various sources for their other knives but comparing the products of both companies, I believe it's Utica for at least electricians knives, hawkbills (Klein calls it a sheepfoot slitting blade) and coping knives. If you can prove otherwise, hop to it. I would be interested in your results. I'm always looking to learn.

[gino]

Awesome info Jerry. I always am interested in learning something new. Great work.

[Miller Bro's]

Jerry,

I believe yours is a Klein, most all I have ever seen are always marked. Here are a couple I pulled out of my junk box, I probably have a dozen of these. Both of these are marked Klein, the rivets, bail, and handle material are the same as yours. So if yours is unmarked it was probably made by the same company that made them for Klein.

The three blade Klein is kind of nice All these sold by Klein are Electricians knives, not sold as Pruning knives, although you could use them as such.

[jerryd6818]

I agree with everyone, it's a Klein, but it's not unmarked - "Someone has ground the tang stamp off " (quote from my earlier post)

It's easy to see the grind marks on the tang. Not sure why anyone would do that.

MB, twin sister to the second picture you posted.

[gino]

Bingo! I think thats it jerry

[smiling-knife]

Great knives guys Here's a Wostenholm circa 1930s i think. s-k

[gino]

Great old one SK. love it!

[smiling-knife]

Thanks Gino This is a relative... same pattern. I think this one has cocobolo scales and the previous one rosewood. s-k

[knife7knut]

I agree with everyone, it's a Klein, but it's not unmarked - "Someone has ground the tang stamp off " (quote from my earlier post)

It's easy to see the grind marks on the tang. Not sure why anyone would do that.

Probably because for one reason or another it may have been deemed a,"second"due to a defect in the manufacture.By grinding the name off and then selling it,there could be no reason to honor any warranty claim that may result.

[jerryd6818]

I agree with everyone, it's a Klein, but it's not unmarked - "Someone has ground the tang stamp off " (quote from my earlier post)

It's easy to see the grind marks on the tang. Not sure why anyone would do that.

Probably because for one reason or another it may have been deemed a,"second"due to a defect in the manufacture.By grinding the name off and then selling it,there could be no reason to honor any warranty claim that may result.

Makes sense. Thanks.

[knife7knut]

Just got this one this morning at the flea market across the street.Did a cursory cleaning and oiled it.Came out of an old mechanics tool box that had seen some water inside.box and tools were junk but the knife was in surprisingly good shape.
One thing I noticed was that it had a small notch worn into the cutting edge right near the center of the blade.Whoever owned it must have used it to strip electrical wire a lot.First Queen City stamp I acquired and the price was right:two dollars!

[orvet]

Just got this one in the mail today. Someone has ground the tang stamp off so I got it for $4.99 with free shipping. It could be just about anything since everybody and his brother used those fake wood composition handles. What do you think? Cammillus? Did they do shiny blades?

It looks like a Camillus #1 to me. I have an S-cards from Camillus showing that they made a lot of the TL-29s for Klein. The finish on the blade would be specified by the company that ordered the knives. Camillus would polish the blades if that's what the company wanted. I have not seen an S-card for the Klein hawkbill, as I only have a limited number of S-cards. At least we know Klein did have Camillus made knives for them.

It is quite possible, even likely, that Camillus made at least some of the hawkbills sold under the Klein name.
Tom Williams, (the Company Historian for Camillus), told me that Camillus made Hawkbills, TL-29s, marlin spike knives, as well as some other "work knife" patterns, for most of the US companies at one time or another.
The texture pattern on the handle looks to me like one used by Camillus.

You might try comparing a Camillus #1 (of similar age and condition) to your Klein. Compare the weight, snap and the general feel and see how closely they resemble one another. Don't let the finish or the handle material interfere with the comparison, as those could be specified to be different when the order was placed.

Dale

[Owd Wullie]

Here's an older Schrade


And one from Germany for a Texas based company that is no longer in business.

[orvet]

Nice ones Willie!
Love the etch on the blade of that second one.

Dale

[Owd Wullie]

Thanks Dale,

Good to see you're back home and I hope the folks are doing OK.

Cusprider asked me the other day as to why some of the pruners had a flat end. I told him my thinking was that they were meant to be used and maybe that was another way they could be used by bashing things.. Or maybe it was so they'd stand up nicely.

Anybody have any other and probably better ideas?

[Miller Bro's]

Nice ones Willie

The old Rope knives had a flat bottom so they would stand up, I suppose the pruning knives were flat for the same reason.

[orvet]

LT has the story on the flat end of the knife.
There were many from as far back as the Civil War era that you can see indentations in the end of the flat metal cap on the end.
It had something to do with percussion caps on the rifles they used IIRC.

I will send LT a link and see if he won't comment on that.

Dale

[jerryd6818]

Mmmmmm Wullie. I do like those rat tail bolsters, especially the ones on that German/Texan knife. Someday...

[orvet]

Just heard back from LT.
Check out LT's posting on page 3 of this thread.
There he talks about how these were often used by soldiers and farmers as patch knives and the flat metal covered end was often used to dislodge the firing pin on old guns when the firing pin became jammed by the old black powder used then.

Dale