Western

[XX Case XX]

Is there a difference between knives that are identified as:

1. Western
2. Western Cutlery co.
3. Western Boulder

I see all three of these titles used on eBay but don't know if they're the same company or they're different.

___________
Mike

[tongueriver]

That is a multi-page subject, but I suspect ZZ will be along eventually to give a short version.

[mariacrow44]

Following!!

[Gunsil]

And let's not forget the earliest mark, Western States Cutlery Co! This mark with the Western States in an arch was used early on and found on knives made on contract for Western by Case, Union Cut, Marbles and probably others as well and some made by Western.

[Colonel26]

Oldest to newest:
1. Western Cut. Co.
2. Western Boulder Colo.
3. Western

[hardman]

I will add another one for you. Western Field was a brand name for Montgomery Ward. I have a Knife and Hatchet set marked "Western Field" that I have verified was made by Western.

[tongueriver]

They made them for Sears and for Coast Cutlery. Probably others, even in a small way I think for Primble. After certain dates the company went to Camillus and Coleman. The timeline, stamps, ownership, manufacturing places, etc. is really rather complicated. It is a personal thing, and not to reflect on later iterations, but I sure do like to see the word 'Boulder' on a Western of interest.

[Colonel26]

I agree with Cal, I like Boulder on my Westerns, that means pre 1973. Nothing wrong with the later Western knives, they were good knives, just not as slick as the older ones.

I can't remember exactly, but wasn't it something like 1986 when Coleman bout them out, and then the late 80's when Camillus bought them?

[zzyzzogeton]

What's in a name, you ask? Well...... The long version of Western and their stamps would make for a small book.

First caveat - Most of what I relate here is for FIXED BLADE knives.

Folders have their own set of stamps and I have not made a study of them since I don't collect them. The stamps depicted in TKMWWW and subsequent collections of stamps are both correct and incorrect. Some were used on fixed blades only. Others on folders only. Some on both at the same time and others on both at different times.

The company started out as WESTERN STATES CUTLERY & MANUFACTURING CO. The Platts family had moved to Boulder CO in 1911 and immediately started selling cutlery out of their home. Their initial products were made by others, mostly by W.R. Case (as payment for the shares of Case stock that Platts had sold back to W.R.), but also by Marbles, Union (Kabar), and maybe others . The stamps varied, but most had some version of WESTERN STATES CUTLERY as the stamp. This was the official company name until 1956, when STATES was dropped and it became simply WESTERN CUTLERY CO.

During this period (1912 to 1956), stamps used included --
WESTERN STATES CUTLERY CO.,
WESTERN STATES CUT CO,
WESTERN,
WEST-CUT,
WESTACO

and probably others. All of them had BOULDER COLO as part of the stamp. After 1931, MOST Western fixed blades had some reference to the bifurcated tang patent number. These included

PAT APPL'D FOR (1931-1932)
PATENT PEND (1933-1934)

and then from 1934 to about 1950 to 1952ish, (depending on model #)
PATENTED
PAT. NO. 1,967,479
PAT. MADE IN USA (1946/7 - 1953 or 1954, depending on model)

Model numbers were "officially added" to the stamps around 1955, but I have knives with both a model number AND a reference to the patent #. Theoretically, based on what TKMWWW has, the stamp on fixeds between 1950 and 1955 SHOULD have been WESTERN over BOULDER COLO, but......

After 1956, the stamps were essentially

WESTERN over BOULDER COLO with "additions"

From 1955 to 1967, the model numbers were on the pile side ricasso
Starting in 1968, the model numbers were on the guard.

In 1970, the WESTMARK line was added. These were the 701, 702 and 703. Any WESTMARKs other than these 3 were made for Smokie Mountain Knife Works, most likely by Camillus.

BOULDER COLO was dropped from all stamps starting in 1973.

Western started adding date codes to the stamps in 1977, starting with "A". "G" and "O" are the 2 rarest stamps. "G" because that presaged the sale of Western to Coleman. "O" were the final offerings before Camillus bought the assets.

After Camillus bought the name in 1992, the date codes were dropped and the stamps changed to

WESTERN
over
USA Model#

Then you can also throw in the contract knives, stamped for other vendors --

Western Field (Montgomery Wards)
Coast Cutlery (Oregon)
Hawthorne (Montgomery Wards)
Ranger (Unknown)
J.C. Higgins (Sears)
Western Auto

There's more specific details, re: W49/Bowies, but that info is in my W49 ID thread.

[tongueriver]

Thanks, ZZ; that succinct treatise goes into my Word.docx along with other comments by you on Westerns.

[steve99f]

This one gets bookmarked, thank you for sharing your knowledge ZZ.

[Old Hunter]

Thanks ZZ! Just conclusively narrowed my Western Black Beauty F66 to Christmas 1968 - I've tried and tried to remember if it was Christmas 67 or 68 - guess it doesn't make much difference in the greater scheme, but I'm glad to know when my folks gifted it to me! OH

[MontieMilner]

On several occasions I have purchased a WESTERN pocket Knife with the Name WESTERN crossed off by someone. Why is this?

[edge213]

Great information.

[zzyzzogeton]

On several occasions I have purchased a WESTERN pocket Knife with the Name WESTERN crossed off by someone. Why is this?

That would, under MOST circumstances, indicate that the knife was deemed a "second" during final QC. I have seen only a few of them since I don't collect folders on a persistent basis, but the ones I have, I have been unable to determine WHY the knife being examined was deemed to be a "second".

Probably some cosmetic issue that doesn't look like an issue to me since I am not a real picky person on appearence and I'm usually looking as used ones if I'm looking at a folder at all. I'm sure that Western sold seconds in some manner rather than writing off the expensive of the knife for a total loss.

There is always the possibility that someone other than the factory crossed the name but why they would do that is beyond me.

[MontieMilner]

Thanks it did not occur to me they might be seconds.