My search for a pre-WWII civilian/boy scout knife

[PvtRossi]

Hello all,

My search for a civilian or boy scout pocket knife (preferably with can opener and lanyard ring) dating to the 1920s or 1930s that I could use for a 1941-1944 US army soldier impression continues. Some have already helped me out in understanding that for soldiers in non-specialized roles (i.e. paratroopers, engineers, signal corps etc.) there was no military issue knife at least until 1944 with the Knife, Pocket, General Purpose (which probably didn't actually reach the lines well into 1945). So a civilian or a boy scout knife coming from home would be more historically accurate.
I am no expert on the subject (and actually very ignorant) so I please bear with me. I appreciate if you could give me some guidance in telling if a knife is pre-WWII manufacture or post-war.

I've found this anonymous-looking Ulster knife that fits my budget and needs for sale. Can anybody tell me if it looks like pre-WWII manufacture or if it's a postwar knife?

[eveled]

IMHO, and it could be wrong. Look for funky can openers. The hook shaped can opener on the knife you show I think first appeared in ww2. Then everyone (except SAK) used it going forward. The older scout knives had various other types. Usually 2 piece can openers.

Also the ww2 knives that had the hook can opener would have had a longer bottle opener/ screw driver.

The one you show looks like 1970’s and up to me.

[ScoutKnives]

Here are a few Ulster examples that would fit your criteria , all pre WWII .

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R ... any+dwight

[tongueriver]

If the handles are bone on a given 'scout' or utility knife, the odds are extremely high that it is pre-WWII. There were a few war knives in bone by Ulster USA. Speaking of which, if a tang stamp says Ulster Knife Co. (not Ulster Knife USA) it is pre-1941. With the above exception, these utility knives had abandoned bone by the time the war started, and didn't pick that natural material back up again after the war. There are exceptions. On Ebay, there are so many 'scout' knives for sale that it boggles the imagination. Exceeded only by electrician knives. If you see a bone one, come here for corroboration of pre-war status.

[PvtRossi]

Thank you all! This forum truly is a source of wisdom and knowledge!
I will ditch the first knife posted.
I guess the Ulster Model 1502 (manufactured 1923-26) would be perfect for me: https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-ULSTER ... Sw7UBdiBuA

What saith thou?

[Gunsil]

The ebay one you show would be a good one to have and it is actually in very nice condition other than the patina/rust. It would be a good one for your authentic WW2 re-enactment.

By the way Cal, Ulster knives made for the military in WW2 carried the early Ulster Knife Co marks, not the Ulster USA marks. Once again the tang stamp charts fail miserably. Just look at the mark on an Ulster "mountain troops" knife only made during the war and they all have the early mark. Baer did buy ulster in 1941 but the mark did not change until after the war.

[tongueriver]

By the way Cal, Ulster knives made for the military in WW2 carried the early Ulster Knife Co marks, not the Ulster USA marks. Once again the tang stamp charts fail miserably. Just look at the mark on an Ulster "mountain troops" knife only made during the war and they all have the early mark. Baer did buy ulster in 1941 but the mark did not change until after the war.

Excellent info. Are you sure that SOME of the 1941-1945 knives did not change the stamp?

[Gunsil]

I do know that Ulster made several models of pocket knives for the military during WW2 and they all carry the earlier mark. I consider it highly unlikely that they would change tooling for some and not others. Also since Baer bought the company in 1941 and a war was on why bother changing stamps at all? Kind of like Case Tested is said by some to have ended in 1940 yet all their pocket knives made for the military during the war carry the tested mark. I think both companies changed their marks when the war and all it's changes to manufacturing were over.

[tongueriver]

This is welcome info, Gene; glad to have it.

[PvtRossi]

Both Ulster Model 1502s I had my eyes on are gone.
I very much like to get one of those, but since the Army issued P-38 can openers ad nauseam,having a knife with a can opener is not a conditio-sine-qua-non for me. So I was looking at other models that would also be historically accurate for the period 1941-1944.
What do y'all think about this?

[KnifeSlinger#81]

Both Ulster Model 1502s I had my eyes on are gone.
I very much like to get one of those, but since the Army issued P-38 can openers ad nauseam,having a knife with a can opener is not a conditio-sine-qua-non for me. So I was looking at other models that would also be historically accurate for the period 1941-1944.
What do y'all think about this?
s-l1600.jpg

That is a 1936-1952 era stamp, so it could be authentic ww2 era.

[doglegg]

Both Ulster Model 1502s I had my eyes on are gone.
I very much like to get one of those, but since the Army issued P-38 can openers ad nauseam,having a knife with a can opener is not a conditio-sine-qua-non for me. So I was looking at other models that would also be historically accurate for the period 1941-1944.
What do y'all think about this?
s-l1600.jpg

One of my favorite knifes. Tough, useful and beautiful.
Does it have steel liners?

[Old Hunter]

The Imperial EO is an excellent choice - very popular knife at the time and many were made. I have that knife in both bone and black synthetic - both still walk and talk beautifully and take a keen edge. OH

[PvtRossi]

What do y'all think about this bad boy? I haven't bought it yet.

[Mumbleypeg]

That looks like a nice one. Missing its bail though if that means anything to you.

Ken

[tongueriver]

What do y'all think about this bad boy? I haven't bought it yet.
s-l1600.jpg

Very heavy wear. I don't know your goal or your budget.

[PvtRossi]

That looks like a nice one. Missing its bail though if that means anything to you.

Ken

Noticed that unfortunately. Finding a bail to replace it would be an easy job?

[Mumbleypeg]

Probably easier to find one with bail intact. Some folks have here might make one for you but not sure what it would cost.

Ken

[conslade]

The 1st Special Service Force (also called The Devil's Brigade, The Black Devils, The Black Devils' Brigade, and Freddie's Freighters),[1][2] was an elite American-Canadian commando unit in World War II, under command of the United States Fifth Army. The unit was organized in 1942 and trained at Fort William Henry Harrison near Helena, Montana in the United States. The Force served in the Aleutian Islands, and fought in Italy, and southern France before being disbanded in December 1944.
The above was cut and paste from Wikipedia. This group had a very cool utility knife made for them by Ulster. It was a five bladed knife, with the fifth being a Phillips screwdriver. The bail was flattened and was stamped U.S. (the only military marking). Of course, this one is rare and expensive. I have owned two of 'em and, like a dummy, sold both. Good luck!
This was also the first ever U. S. Special Forces unit.

[eveled]

[Treejakal]

Just got to see this post. Here is my Dad's knife. He carried it every day and used it plenty. I remember him having it in the 50's and 60's. I don't know how long he owned it before then, but it could have easily been in the 1940's. The camera focused on the bolster not the tang, but I think it is Cattargus Cutlery Little Valley. I am interested if any has info.

[knifeaholic]

Just got to see this post. Here is my Dad's knife. He carried it every day and used it plenty. I remember him having it in the 50's and 60's. I don't know how long he owned it before then, but it could have easily been in the 1940's. The camera focused on the bolster not the tang, but I think it is Cattargus Cutlery Little Valley. I am interested if any has info.

Great knife with a great story!!

Yes it is a Cattaraugus Whittl Kraft knife. It was made in both BSA and non-BSA versions. In fact IIRC they made some for LL Bean.

The blades are all designed for whittling. The blade that appears to be a punch is sort of a chisel blade. The bottle opener has a semi-sharpened edge at the screwdriver for rough shaping.

Catt sold the knives individually and also as part of a whittling kit that included a booklet, wood blocks, and a cloth bag.

[Treejakal]

Thanks for the great info Steve, any idea on its age?

[bestgear]

The BSA versions of the Cattaraugus whittling knives were made between 1932 and 1943 (all were pre-war). There is one story where the design of the knife was based on the results of asking boys at a National Jamboree for the features they desired in a pocket knife. There is also a story that the knife was designed when the BSA began the whittling merit badge in 1927. I have no facts to backup either story but both could be possible. They also made a 4-blade version without a bail and 3-blade versions that were the same length closed as the 4-blade versions but without the screwdriver/cap lifter blade. And given the provenance of yours, the value is priceless. Hope this helps along with what others have added. Tom

[Treejakal]

Found an pic of one without the bail in good condition