Cattaraugus 225Q pommel assembly

[coffeecup]

While taking pictures today, I grabbed a Catt 225Q from the repair pile and shot pics of the tang assembly. The Catt 225Q has an ingenious pommel design, being made of 3 plates and two pins, and offers a number of unique features. The pommel was designed to both counterbalance the weight of the blade and to serve for pounding--nails, tent stakes, etc.

The first two pics are of a different Catt 225Q, not the one I disassembled. End view:

In this picture, note particularly that the two pins holding the endcap are offset. If for some reason you have a Catt pommel apart and it doesn't line up right when you re-assemble, you've almost certainly rotated some part of it by 180 degrees, or a piece is upside down. All it takes is a quick look to verify and correct this. Not doing so just makes a lot of work for yourself!

Next we have a side view:


From the side we can see that the tang and pins don't protrude as far as they seem to in the end view. For descriptive purposes, we'll use these two shots to establish some terminology.

In the end view, we can see the tang (rectangle in the center) and the heads of the two pins (those little circular things on either side of the tang).

The plate seen in the end view is plate 1. From the side, just below plate 1 we can see plate 2 and plate 3. With a closer look, the fibre washer can also be seen below the steel plates and above the leather washers that make up the handle. (Why this is commonly called a "fibre washer" is beyond me--every one I've seen seemed to be some sort of phenolic).

Disassembly:
Here we have our demonstration model, with one pin removed. The hole for the pin is the same diameter, all the way down, with just a slight countersink at the top. The countersink depth has not been consistent on the pommels I've seen; I suspect they just did a quick countersink to remove the burrs.


And here is plate 1 and the pin in all their rusty glory:


With the second pin removed, plate 2 is revealed:


As you can see, in order to remove plate 2, it must be rotated 90 degrees clockwise. The pins fit through the space left to allow for the rotation. Here it is rotated for removal (in the pic, I slid it slightly to one side to better-show the plate opening in relation to the tang):


The next two pics show plate 2 off the knife, and the tang of the knife:




When plate 2 is rotated into place, it slides under/into the notches in the tang, locking it in place and preventing the handle from being compressed when used as a hammer. This also means that there is no way to tighten the handle by pounding on the pommel! When this is done, it usually results in damage to both the tang and the plate, and often requires major surgery to repair.

More to come. . . .

[gringo]

thanks...

so you are ..."you put your first finger here", school...ex DI?

[coffeecup]

Once plate 2 is off, we can see plate 3. This is nothing more than a flat pommel-shaped piece, pierced for the tang and 2 pins.


Plate 3 slides off the tang, revealing the fibre washer. (The rust on the washer was left by plate 3, and is not part of the washer.) The holes for the pins continue through the fibre washer and for some depth into the leather washers (that depth seems to vary depending on the pins used).


Normally, at this point I stop disassembly, clean up the rust, and call it good. The exceptions being when a handle repair or replacement is necessary.

Usually--if the leather is in good shape, aside from some shrinkage--the quickest way to tighten it up is to remove the fibre washer and install one leather washer cut from 7-8 ounce leather. Then reinstall the fibre washer and plate 3. Installing plate 2 will take some pressure to compress the new washer, and it takes some effort to rotate plate 2 into place.

If one leather washer will not restore this tightness of the handle, I re-do the entire thing.

For reference, here is a shot of plate 2:


plate 3:


a side view of plate 2, showing thickness (all three plates are the same thickness):


and a shot of all three plates together:


I hope someone finds this useful at some point.

[coffeecup]

thanks...

so you are ..."you put your first finger here", school...ex DI?

Sorry Gringo--I was focused on the second part and missed your note. I'd wanted to put something like this together for a while, so we'd have something to refer people to when they have the inevitable questions. Since the questioners often aren't "knife guys", and sometimes aren't native speakers of English, I wanted to make things as clear as I could.

[jerryd6818]

Very clearly documented Jim. Good job.

[junebug]

very cool!!! thanks for info!!!



junebug

[MikeA]

Awesome pictures and ones that I will keep for reference thats for sure. Nice!!!

Mike

[gringo]

nice thread...
the method used to make newbee's in the army hold things correctly was...."you put your first finger here..."

[mikek]

Coffeecup, thanks for the good read, I have one question, how are the pins removed initially? Is there enough clearance to rotate them with needle nose plyers? Thanks, Mike

[coffeecup]

The pin is a special spiral-shank nail. Once they are in place, the heads are intended to be flush (so the pommel face can be used as a hammer, etc), and they are not intended to come out. There's no way to grip them with a pair of pliers unless they are already loose due to leather shrinkage or loss. In the example I photographed, one pin was missing and the other was already loose.

Sometimes there's no way to grip them even with leather shrinkage and loss! That's not necessarily a bad thing. There's no reason to disassemble the knife handle unless it is to replace part or all of the handle. If that is the case, the decision has been made to modify the knife on some level. The loss or destruction of the pin becomes a minor issue.

Center punch the head of the pin and drill it out. Start with a 1/16" bit and drill about 1/8"-3/16" deep, then enlarge the hole with an 1/8" bit. The head of the pin should break loose, or be loose enough to break off using the tip of an awl in the hole. Remove the top plate, then grip the remaining shank of the pin with a pair of visegrips. Apply pressure to draw it out, rotating just slightly counter-clockwise. The pin should come out, though it may take a few tries.

After you've rebuilt the handle, replace the pins with new spiral shank nails, filing the heads to fit the countersink in the top plate. I suspect the nail originally used was a special-purpose nail adapted for this use; in doing repairs I've used unplated spiral-shank nails from the "nail can" every shop should have, filing the head to fit the top plate and shortening the nail to about 1" long.

[mikek]

Thanks for the information. Mike.