Celluloid Handles

[justold52]

Thanks 46 but its time for some YELLOW ones

[Luckypaul777]

Don't have but two; with yellow handles.


Luckypaul777

[jonet143]

are those queens celuloid?

[Hukk]

Charlie and Perry: this is my second time dabbling in the hobby, I never had celluloid's before. I haven't noticed any problems; is this the fate of all celluloid knives? I knew; that they could have a problem with shrinkage. So basically what you are saying is; all celluloid knives will need to be re handled at sometime? Thanks.


Luckypaul777

Not necessarily at a near term date, long term I think EVERY celluloid will be replaced but that could be longer than I live. I do have some knives made in 2005 that have outgassed ALREADY. I removed the scales to protect the backsprings, liners and blades. When they break down that fast, THAT's when I worry about metal corrosion and metal fatigue. Thank goodness I bought them for the very purpose to customize. Yet, I have a friend that has some real nice old knives that date into the 1890's and they are just fine. BUT, I look at a knife with bad celluloid handles as a rejuvination project, I have a few RARE Knives that include a 1 of 6, 1 of 4, 1 of 9 from the early 1980's that are in sorry shape that are amongest the many project knives I have going. I bought them in this condition to restore. About the only thing I will keep is the blades. or The backsprings have rusted and cracked, so I will make a pair of those (so my backspring strength is the same on each) and the liners are badly pitted. I think a healthy outlook is what can I do to customize this knife to save it and maybe add value, WITHOUT making it look like a similar knife (counterfeit). On one I could just put stag handles and pocket a few hunder - WHO's to know - WELL ME for ONE and I refuse to do so and have turned down work. On those half dozen they are RARE Bulldogs worth saving almost all have steel liners (rare) and I will restore to as near original as possible. Instead of celluloid I have researched some polyester materials that look and feel identical, yet they will be stable forever. Also some acryllics that are very nice. I will most certainly stamp all 3 liners including the center liner. If I make a blade HUKK will be on the tang.

On the other hand I have been selling a mix of celluloids going back to 1982 or 1983 and they are pretty darn tight for their age. I list any shrinkage if there is any and I wil not sell a knife that is outgassing, I would rehandle it as close to the original as possible. I also stamp my last name inside the liner if I restore a knife. Sorry, I don't wish to add to the list of counerfeit knives. I do have some counterfeit knives that need new handles, I was thiking of Corprolite as a handle material - 60 to 100 million year old fossilized Dinosauer Dung. Saw a 25 pounder on eBay a while back

I'm of the opinion that if a knife is 25 years old and has nice tight celluloid it is most likely to stay that way for a long time. On the other hand I have some that have shrunk and discolored on a 2005 knife. That I suspect will outgas rapidly and etch holes into the steel. Celluloid is Nitro-Cellulose or a form of and I believe it breaks down into Nitric Acid in the gaseous form is EXTREMELY corrosive and will eat & corrode metal in no time.

Here is an article about celluloid breakdown and has a link to an article from the Oregon Knife Club. http://www.balisongcollector.com/celluloid.html

Here is another good link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celluloid From the last article you can see that celluloid is volitle and even explosive in manufacture.

[Ringmaster]

Bravo, Hukk !

Like you, I would never try to counterfeit anything. I look at the few p.knives that I've rebuilt, as just an improvement - never tried to pass them off, as anything else.

Quick question, since I have no experience - do you think an etching machine would work on brass and n.s. liners ? I've got a Rooster, that's outgassing, as we speak...

I also have used a couple of acrylics, and they made a terrific substitute for celluloid, IMO. TKS has a large variety, that's what I've used - and Jantz lists some others. I'll be making a pilgrimage to Davis, Ok as soon as I get my back "fixed" - I'll look at theirs.

Thanks,
JR

[Hukk]

Yes, IMG carries an electrolyte, here's the table:

http://www.img-electromark.com/table.htm

And the main website is http://www.img-electromark.com I think I talked with Pat, yes I had to look her up but Patricia Bruno.

I.M.G. of Utica, Inc.
(315) 735-7591 is the phone
pbruno@img-electromark.com is email
Pat is nice to work with and is the Graphic Arts Director.

I have the SS211, I don't know if they are making it. It was especially designed for knifemakers. Come to think of it, quite a nice piece of art work could be put on the inside of the liner. Anything a computer can generate can be applied. I have also gotten a sheet of stencil material so I can make my own. You need a light box (different from the photography boxes) and some developer which they sell. Make anything you want on a clear transfer and expose the pattern onto the stencil - then develope.

[Bulldog-Arne]

Well I dont know how come but here where i live, Sweden, its not uncommon with rather old cellhandle knives. Think there are many of them from the 40´s and 50´s. Light celluloid like cracked ice and pearl imitation and such which are said to be the among the most prone to be unstable(?). I dont have many as I ve not collected in a very ambitiuos way but Ive seen a lot of them. And the truth is Ive never heard of this problem before and never seen any in real life that have had that problem. Never knew anything about it before I read about it here. Perhaps its not celluloid the material I thoght was cell, or it has something to do with the climate.
Would´nt surprise me if the knives I have starts to deteriorate immediately now just because I wrote this ... isn´t that the way it works..

[CCBill]

Here's a pic of an old('94), yaller handled Queen. Is this celluloid? It sure doesn't look or feel like it. It seems to have an open(?) texture to it. Maybe it was never polished at the factory. What is the best way to clean,apparently un polished cell? It's about as mint as you will find, but the handles are dull and sorta dirty.
I'll bet Ken could clean it up but I doubt I would ever see it again, huh, Ken...
...CCBill...

[justold52]

I will give you my mailing address so you can send her to me.

I will polish her up so you can see a SMILE in them handles.

When I am done I will send you a photo with my SMILE in it

Even if she has Delrin handles...

[justold52]

Here is one I have totally for gotten to show off.

It's that time of the year to check closely on my Cells again.

All so far look clean and wet. It is hard not to like then Cells.

We have NEW members here at AAPK. It would help you a lot to read this post from page one to page 31. A lot of good info in here that will save you lots of money to know about your Cells.

[Bulldog-Arne]

I must say, I´m not sure I always can tell the difference between celluloid and akrylic material. Or perhaps I can, are there some kind of higher pitch in the cell when you tap on it compared to acrylic?

Are there anyone who know if its celluloid in this knife? Its got metallic flakes in it, doesn´t show on picture. I guess it´s some kind of acrylic but I dont know.

A little quiz if it´s not to off topic;
Where is the background to the picture (from), (1 p) and who made it, (2p) (the background behind the knife, not the knife). What is the connection/similarity between the knife and the backgroundpicture? (3 p.) This last question I didn´t thought of first.

[lenny357]

look at these bad boys!

[singin46]

Very nice collection Chris You scared me at first I thought you had those knives layin on concrete.

Perry

[justold52]

I brought this tread back up for the NEW members asking about Celluloid Handles.

If you start reading from the first page. You will learn a lot about them. Some good stuff to learn and many kool knives too.

[justacowboy]

still waiting for the right knife to put these on. had 2 sets , used one on an old 2 blade Wandy.
Stuff is almost impossible to find.

[singin46]

Celluloid always and forever Ken!

Singin47

[Hukk]

I have this 2005 Bulldog Saddlehorn with outgassing already. I know I mentioned it before but I have a picture of it - I don't remember if I posted the picture before.............SO, here it is.

It started to outgas just 1-1/2 to 2 years after I got it and I have removed the Waterfall Celluloid - still have the picture. The pins started to discolor first........then the shield, and the bolster was last to discolor. There is plenty of oil on the blade, but the handles never had oil - even though they are a mess. I have not decided what to replace the celluloid with. Ah Heck it will be some sort of abalone shell or stag most likely.

I may reconfigure the shape somewhat. Lot's of options.

It is propped against a piece of stabilized black line spalted maple.

Anyhow it can happen to new knives as well as old. It may be from heat generated by using a belt that is not fresh or even excess heat from buffing. - Who knows!

[singin46]

A sad reality Hukk. We've all been there and will probably be a great carry rehandled.

Singin47

[justold52]

FOR all to read.

Start from page one. LOTS to real good knives and lots to learn. This will help and it's ezer than me typeing.

http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/kni ... 63&start=0

[singin46]

You said a mouth full there Ken.
Ken is a grate typor ok. Dun't dout id.

Singun Singan Singin 48

[justold52]

it's ez 4 me to reed 46s tiping.

cuz he spells sowell.

jast likk the warrd sonds likk....

Now poop read the stuff in here you new guys will be amazed on how to store your Celluloids.

I STILL want those CELLS form JFARMER.

[singin46]

Yes Ken, Jfarmer has some real beauties!!

Singin

[hindview]

beautiful knives!

[justold52]

Cells that have gassed out.

I took these photos from an other fourm and placed them in here to show some of the new guys want to look for and some things to do to thier Cell knives.

Lots of info in this fourm. (Good and Bad).

[justold52]

I have been asked again about the Cell handles.

This is for you Otto add your gr8 photos here and any info you have on the knives. ....