Schrade 863

[knifeaholic]

Thanks Jerry and Unk.
I see the Empire knife sold for $106.60.I put a few bids on it but It when well above my limit.
Grant

Be glad that you did not get it. That Empire was a fake.

[jerryd6818]

Steve -- Can you educate us on the clues that brought you to that conclusion? It would be appreciated.

[knifeaholic]

Steve -- Can you educate us on the clues that brought you to that conclusion? It would be appreciated.

Jerry;

The first thing is the tang stamp looks like pure crap, not even close to what an Empire stamp would look like. Hard to describe but look at it and compare it to some of the older tang stamps on pre WWII knives. Next, the blades have a cheapo look to them, without the nice swedging like you would see on a quality knife like an Empire.

My take is that it is one of the Solingen knockoffs of the 863 restamped. Frankly it looks like a MyrtyleFaye job.

It does have nice bone though.

[jerryd6818]

Thank you

[Dragunski]

Oh man! I really liked that Empire! Somebody here bought it and bombed it to another collector here. And the sheep shagger from Australia bid on it too.

I have seen that "W.Winsted" stamp on other knives, There's a thread around here about it somewhere.

[Miller Bro's]

10-12 years ago, there were a lot more knives on Ebay that were in very good condition. They were coming out of people's drawers after 50 years, and they were being sold off as part of the estate when the old collectors died. I should have bought more at that time, but I hadn't yet completely caught the "bug".

Part of the problem with those old dudes dying off was that certain parts of the knife market crashed. For instance, there is no longer much of a market for pearl-handled knives and small whittlers, once highly collectible. Now they're hard to sell, and people have hoarded them, hoping for the prices to come back.

Younger collectors seem to want big knives - hunters and switchblades, and there's not the demand for stock and cattle knives, either. A lot of people just aren't selling because they know they can't get a reasonable price. Add the slow economy factor and the situation is just not very good. You'd think there would be a lot of good deals out there, but that's not the case.

People are just hoarding, waiting for a better market. There are knives out there in good condition, but you're not seeing them on Ebay right now. If you do, they're sitting there on Buy-it-now with a high price. And they sit there for months.

I think there are more rare & desirable knives coming to market in the last 4 years than ever before. I have been watching prices on fee bay since 1998 and right now it is a buyers market. Certain patterns and handle material are no longer desirable as new younger collectors enter the market and tastes change.

Younger collectors are not interested in antique knives, they want "tactical" knives and other modern type knives, very very few young collectors are entering the market buying up antique knives, this trend will continue for as far as I can see, just go to a local knife show and see who is buying the older knives, it`s not the younger generation.

If you are hoarding old knives in hopes they will increase in value you are in the wrong business. They may or may not increase in fact they may severely decrease.

My best advice is to collect knives you really like or can use without trying to time the market or predict future value. Another thing, don`t spend more than you can afford, you can quickly go broke when you have the knife disease

[Dragunski]

I gotta disagree. A search for Empire Winsted gets 4 results, eliminating "Empire State Bldg" knives. A Schrade Cut Co search gets 23, mostly garbage, and a New York knife gets 25, only 8 over $100.

Pretty slim pickings. I seem to remember in 1999-2002, there were at least twice that many. Should I try Napanoch or Tidioute? Miller Bros?

But you're right about the younger collectors - they don't care for whittlers or pearlies. And most of them don't even know the old names...

[Miller Bro's]

A Schrade Cut Co search gets 23, mostly garbage, and a New York knife gets 25, only 8 over $100.

You gotta look at the whole picture, not just what comes up in your search this week. Go back and search "completed auctions" it covers 3 months, I got 172 results and there were some pretty nice old Schrade knives in there.

http://www.ebay.com/dsc/i.html?LH_Title ... nife&rt=nc

Same thing with the other brands, check the entire site and see what sells for the entire year

[Shearer]

[quote="Dragunski"]Oh man! I really liked that Empire! Somebody here bought it and bombed it to another collector here. And the sheep shagger from Australia bid on it too.



In Australia we are sheep shearers. We leave the shagging to the New Zealanders.

[Dragunski]

When my niece was in Australia, she got to shear some sheep. She said it was hard work, but she enjoyed it. My Mom's family is descended from Scottish sheep shaggers.

But about that Empire - I had no idea it was fake, it looked good to me. Maybe the blade was replaced. Like I said, I've seen that stamp before on small Empires, and it looked old and dark to me. I still don't understand what was wrong with it.

[Shearer]

I received a Schade Walden 863 in the mail.I purchased it planning on doing a rehandle as one handle was broken and shield missing.
I started to clean the knife up and noticed it had pins through the bolster.I think this could be one of the ones made before the Swindon System was introduced.The 863 is in the 1953 price list.
The second picture is a Bone handle with the Swindon System

[orvet]

I received a Schade Walden 863 in the mail.I purchased it planning on doing a rehandle as one handle was broken and shield missing.
I started to clean the knife up and noticed it had pins through the bolster.I think this could be one of the ones made before the Swindon System was introduced.The 863 is in the 1953 price list.
The second picture is a Bone handle with the Swindon System

Without looking up the exact date, IIRC the Swinden system was granted a US Patent in 1964.
I have been told it was probably in use for 2 or 3 years before that time, so knives made prior to 1961 or 1962 would be pinned through the bolsters like other knives.

No doubt your knife was made prior to 1961 or 1962, whenever they started using the Swinden machine.

[Unk]

So this is not a Schrade 863, but it's close enough. I think it is a Camillus #80.....which is just a fancy version of the #72, with milled liners and bone handles and a nice oval shield. It has a nice etch that doesn't show up very well in the pictures. This one is a Monkey Wards Powr-Kraft model. I don't have a clue when this one was made, but I am guessing the 1960s?

[Shearer]

So this is not a Schrade 863, but it's close enough. I think it is a Camillus #80.....which is just a fancy version of the #72, with milled liners and bone handles and a nice oval shield. It has a nice etch that doesn't show up very well in the pictures. This one is a Monkey Wards Powr-Kraft model. I don't have a clue when this one was made, but I am guessing the 1960s?

The knife was made by Camillus.
There was two Different one's made the other knife had Powr Kraft 84-11.
If you do search for Camillus 72 you will find the knives.
I am working of a iPad at the moment and don't how to copy and paste.

Grant

[jerryd6818]

Wow, Unk. I wish the condition of mine was as good as yours. As Grant said, made by Camillus the everyday 72 variety was numbered 84-11 but I've never seen a model number for the Powr-Kraft 80 variety. In addition to the milled liners the 80 variety also has nickel silver pins and liners. Time to get out the 45x magnifier. I'm pretty sure the handles are not bone but are that dark synthetic Camillus used in the '50s-'60s. I don't remember where I got my information but I have mine documented as '54-'66.

[carrmillus]

So this is not a Schrade 863, but it's close enough. I think it is a Camillus #80.....which is just a fancy version of the #72, with milled liners and bone handles and a nice oval shield. It has a nice etch that doesn't show up very well in the pictures. This one is a Monkey Wards Powr-Kraft model. I don't have a clue when this one was made, but I am guessing the 1960s?

...............can't help with info, but that's a beautiful knife!!!.......... ..................

[Colonel26]

Man Unk, that sure is nice. I've been keeping an eye out for one of those, but not many seem to show up!

I love that jimping on the liners. It reminds me of my Camillus 69's!

[jerryd6818]

Cuz, that Powr-Kraft 80 (I'm going to call it an 80 because I've never seen a number for it and it's just really a Camillus 80 anyway) is as scarce as hen's teeth. The one Unk has is only the second one I've seen. Mine is the first.

[Shearer]

Jerry I have one.
I would post a picture but I am 4000 km from home in Western Australia.

Grant

[jerryd6818]

It doesn't surprise me that you have one Grant. You have a very comprehensive collection of 72s and clones.

You've been pretty scarce around here lately mate.

[Shearer]

It doesn't surprise me that you have one Grant. You have a very comprehensive collection of 72s and clones.

You've been pretty scarce around here lately mate.

Jerry I check the site most days using a iPad I have been visiting my son in Perth and travelling along the west coast.The mobile internet is not good.In some areas no mobile phone internet or TV.Some of the services are only by satellite.

Grant

[Unk]

Thanks guys.

Jerry, I am also not sure the scales are bone or some kind of composite. They feel like bone (not "soft" like delrin or composite). I was looking for some pores, but my old eyes can't see up close as well as they used to.

[jerryd6818]

Who's minding the store while you're out gallivanting all over the country?



Unk -- You need one of those 45x lighted microscopes. They're cheap as dirt and work really well. I'll bet you a burger at McDonalds the handles are synthetic.

Yes, they are shipped from China but they work really well and are under $2 shipped.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/45X-Mini-Micros ... 58b8172321

[Unk]

Thanks Jerry! Just ordered one.

[jerryd6818]

Air ye go. Smart move.