Help identifying a possible East Asian ornamental knife

[twdroppoint]

I need help ... a friend of mine has this knife, but I don't know what it is I want to say it's a knife for Sikh's, but I'm kind of guessing there. Anyone recognize this design/pattern/style ?

[twdroppoint]

[philco]

Don't give up. We have members who know about some pretty obscure cutlery. Just takes time for them to drop in and pontificate. I'll send one of them a PM to draw his attention to this thread and maybe, just maybe, he'll be able to shed some light.

By the way, welcome to AAPK.

Phil

[twdroppoint]

Don't give up. We have members who know about some pretty obscure cutlery. Just takes time for them to drop in and pontificate. I'll send one of them a PM to draw his attention to this thread and maybe, just maybe, he'll be able to shed some light.

By the way, welcome to AAPK.

Phil

Yeah I know ... I was just hoping it was more easily identified, that's all. After a couple of days of no response I figure it's a head scratcher lol

And thanks for the welcome ... I think you welcomed me once already in an auction when I had a Buck I was selling, but thanks again

[junebug]

HEHEHEHE he said PONTIFICATE

COOL KNIFE BY THE WAY...AND WELCOME TO AAPK

[knife7knut]

I believe the knife you have is a Chinese peasant's trousse minus the two chopsticks. I can't see the end of the sheath but there should be either two holes or an elongated slot to hold them.
European style trousses had a knife;a fork;and a sharpening steel included.
I am enclosing some pictures of one that I have.

[philco]

HEHEHEHE he said PONTIFICATE

Maybe I should have looked up the definition BEFORE using it in a sentence. No offence intended.

[jerryd6818]

Phil -- I always thought it meant to speak with authority in a somewhat arrogant manner. Looks like i was incorrect too. Can't help feeling like there is a word to convey that manner of speaking though. I've looked with no positive results.


Edit: Maybe expound on the subject is a fit?????

[philco]

The "arrogant" part is what I was oblivious to. I'd never accuse any of my knife buddies here at AAPK of being arrogant. I just thought it meant to speak with authority on a subject one had knowledge of.

[jerryd6818]

Maybe I got carried away with that one Phil. My brain is getting old and fuzzy. Possibly I should have said, in a self confident manner.

[Shearer]

HEHEHEHE he said PONTIFICATE

Maybe I should have looked up the definition BEFORE using it in a sentence. No offence intended.

The trouble there is different meanings for the same word in different countries.
pontificate - administer a pontifical office
administer, administrate - work in an administrative capacity; supervise or be in charge of; "administer a program"; "she administers the funds"

[twdroppoint]

I believe the knife you have is a Chinese peasant's trousse minus the two chopsticks. I can't see the end of the sheath but there should be either two holes or an elongated slot to hold them.
European style trousses had a knife;a fork;and a sharpening steel included.
I am enclosing some pictures of one that I have.

Awesome !

Unfortunately I don't remember any extra slots ... I go out of town on the weekends most of the time so I don't have access to the knife currently. From memory though: the knife is curved slightly, as though it was meant to curve slightly up into the sheath, and the sheath has this little square like piece on it so that when you rest it on the square piece, it rests perfectly balanced, etc. When I get back and check it out, I'll look at that piece ... because it may be that piece which also has holes in it for chopsticks or something.

The pics of the one you provided looks close ... do you think perhaps Philippines instead of Chinese though ? Maybe lol ? I have a bunch of stuff from a WWII vet who served in the Pacific theatre and saw a lot of Philippines action (he had a couple of balisongs, or butterfly knives, for example)... his brother served in the Euro theatre. At first I thought this might have come from that same group of stuff, or maybe it was unrelated.

Also, what is the dating on your knife ? Do you know what the handle may be made out of ?

Maybe I got carried away with that one Phil. My brain is getting old and fuzzy. Possibly I should have said, in a self confident manner.

In all honesty I've never viewed the word "pontificating" or "pontificate" in a derogatory light lol. I've viewed it as a neutral word, not applying only to instances of snobbery or d-baggery lol.

The word that comes to mind for when someone speaks arrogantly about a topic: pompous ?

[knife7knut]

I doubt that it is of Philippine origin but it may possibly be Japanese.The small piece of rayskin between the two metal sections of the sheath is characteristic of Japanese articles;mostly the handle wrappings of swords under the cord wrap and parts of the scabbard.Also the shape of the blade suggests a Japanes katana.
The handles of mine are a bit strange:one is bone and the other is the color of horn but shows none of the parallel lines usually ingrained in horn.The rivets holding them on are copper which is usually characteristic of the Philippines but nothing else about it suggests the philippines.The one I have is quite crude in construction even though the metal work seems decent. Someone gave me the set a long time ago and they had no clue as to where it originated. I deduced it was Chinese by checking various books I have. I could be wrong.

[twdroppoint]

I doubt that it is of Philippine origin but it may possibly be Japanese.The small piece of rayskin between the two metal sections of the sheath is characteristic of Japanese articles;mostly the handle wrappings of swords under the cord wrap and parts of the scabbard.Also the shape of the blade suggests a Japanes katana.
The handles of mine are a bit strange:one is bone and the other is the color of horn but shows none of the parallel lines usually ingrained in horn.The rivets holding them on are copper which is usually characteristic of the Philippines but nothing else about it suggests the philippines.The one I have is quite crude in construction even though the metal work seems decent. Someone gave me the set a long time ago and they had no clue as to where it originated. I deduced it was Chinese by checking various books I have. I could be wrong.

And I corrected my post ... when I said "look close" I meant to say "looks close" ... sorry haha I meant to say that the pics of the one you posted looks close lol. In other words, I think you're right that the knife I have is a trousse ... and perhaps Chinese. I wasn't questioning if *your* knife was Philippine, rather I was questioning if *mine* was perhaps Sorry if that was confused But the rayskin on my knife, and the curve, makes you think Japanese origin perhaps ? Hmm ...

I sell about 75% of my knives, and keep about 25%. I may decide to sell this one, or I may not ... but I'm wanting to nail it down definitively. Thanks for all your help, it's much appreciated ... I live in the Dallas (TX) area. Do you, or anyone reading these, know a set of eyes in the Dallas area who may be able to pinpoint this thing precisely ?

[jerryd6818]

Maybe I got carried away with that one Phil. My brain is getting old and fuzzy. Possibly I should have said, in a self confident manner.

In all honesty I've never viewed the word "pontificating" or "pontificate" in a derogatory light lol. I've viewed it as a neutral word, not applying only to instances of snobbery or d-baggery lol.

The word that comes to mind for when someone speaks arrogantly about a topic: pompous ?

One of Merriam Webster's meanings is ": to speak or express opinions in a pompous or dogmatic way"
With that said, the word I've seen most closely associated with "pompous is a$$.

[twdroppoint]

Maybe I got carried away with that one Phil. My brain is getting old and fuzzy. Possibly I should have said, in a self confident manner.

In all honesty I've never viewed the word "pontificating" or "pontificate" in a derogatory light lol. I've viewed it as a neutral word, not applying only to instances of snobbery or d-baggery lol.

The word that comes to mind for when someone speaks arrogantly about a topic: pompous ?

One of Merriam Webster's meanings is ": to speak or express opinions in a pompous or dogmatic way"
With that said, the word I've seen most closely associated with "pompous is a$$.

A donkey ?

[jerryd6818]

[twdroppoint]

^_^

-----

And thanks for the replies from everyone on help identifying this knife ... it's much appreciated Hopefully I'll figure out exactly which area it's from. What is the date on knives like this typically ? Googling shows they were common in the 19th century apparently. Does this knife have details that would suggest it is from the 1800's and not much later ? :/

[knife7knut]

It is really difficult to date items of this type as they have been made literally for centuries. I have a Persian jambiya that I thought was no more than a hundred years old and it was found to have been made in the 1600's. I also have a phia-kaetta that dates from about the same time and it looks a thousand years old. Unless there is some particular characteristic that will date a knife it is literally impossible to tell when it was made.
I believe knives such as yours and mine are still being used and in all likelihood still being made.

[twdroppoint]

It is really difficult to date items of this type as they have been made literally for centuries. I have a Persian jambiya that I thought was no more than a hundred years old and it was found to have been made in the 1600's. I also have a phia-kaetta that dates from about the same time and it looks a thousand years old. Unless there is some particular characteristic that will date a knife it is literally impossible to tell when it was made.
I believe knives such as yours and mine are still being used and in all likelihood still being made.

Hmm ... so it could be much older than the 1800's, or it could be 20 years old lol

I guess it makes sense, if most of them are hand made, or crudely made, by peasants and/or "common folk", etc. Hundreds of years or a few decades may not yield much difference if access to the same materials is always steady, as is the manufacture which is probably traditional I imagine.

Do you know if the level or ornateness on the sheath means anything ? I.E. the more ornate the higher class or some such perhaps ? And thanks again for all your input ... it's giving me a foundation to understand the knife and go from there

[twdroppoint]

Okay so I couldn't find any chopsticks or anything that seemed to go with it ... however I'm wondering if what you see in the pic on the sheath is where such items might go ? It's slightly more rounded on the edges of that attachment than the middle, so perhaps chopsticks were stored there ? Or is it too wide ... and more suited for a fork/spoon or something ?

Thoughts ?

[twdroppoint]

After some more digging, I *think* instead of a Chinese trousse ... it's a Tibetan utility knife

Here are a couple of examples: http://www.icollector.com/Silver-Scabba ... _i10262577

http://www.icollector.com/Antique-handm ... _i11153406

http://www.tribalartandtextiles.com/sto ... ductId=179

The circular pattern in the knife apparently also suggests the Tibetan side of the Chinese border, according to another forum (which I was unable to register on for some reason, I was only able to read their threads). I don't know if it's kosher to link to another knife forum here, so I won't ...

Specifically, some sources (from this same unnambed forum) are calling them Khampa work knives, based on a region of Tibet ...

[Miller Bro's]

I don't know if it's kosher to link to another knife forum here, so I won't ...

Post the link

[twdroppoint]

I don't know if it's kosher to link to another knife forum here, so I won't ...

Post the link

Well I've never been afraid of having a post edited by a mod ... sooooo here it goes

One: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6138

Two: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5669

[twdroppoint]

Hey thanks again for the replies to those who replied ... it really helped me nail it down more. I am more confident in the identification now, and unless some new info turns up, I'm probably going to try and sell it. I don't know what the forum's policy is on continuing a thread for an item someone might sell ... that might 86 the thread, idk I may list in in the classified area of this forum also I suppose. Regardless, thank you all ...