European vs American style knives.

[cb51]

It seems to me like the American made knives are mostly of the multiblade patterns, like barlows, jacks, and stockmen and reappers. When I was a kid, all the men carried the steriotypical two bladed little jackknives. But when I got older, and indulged my interest in knives, it seemed like all the European knives were mostly of the single blade type, mostly with locks, but not all. I've always liked that type of knife, over the hard to open slip joints that seem to be the home grown knives. I've got the old German Mercator K55, a French Dou-Douk, Swedish Eka Big Swede with the Normark label on it, and a German Henckels lockblade. Most of all is my favorite, the Opinel.

I was wondering what kind of conditions must have been present in the U.S. for knives to evolve to the styles that are so typical of American knives, when most of the same conditions were present in Europe but they just stuck with a simple single blade knife? I look at the three bladed stockman, and it seems like overkill to have three blades, vs just one and keep it sharp. Not looking for an answer, just musing out loud here to other knife nuts. Like why does the American cowboy need three blades, when an Argentine Gaucho or Spanish sheep herder has just used a large single blade knife like a sodbuster? And then you have the French using an Opinel for everything!

Just idle wondering of an inquiring mind. I guess it seems to me that the typical European knife is a more practical knife to carry. Simple and no nonsense single blade that most do not need a thumb nail to open, and thus can be opened with work gloves on. It's no wonder that when the Buck 110 came out in 1963, it was such a success. The Buck was more like a European style folder. Way easier to use.

[FRJ]

[quote="cb51"]I was wondering what kind of conditions must have been present in the U.S. for knives to evolve to the styles that are so typical of American knives. quote]


I would guess part of the reason is marketing, competition, and good old American ingenuity that produced designs for specific tasks.
Lots of frame designs, and lots of blade designs. And the willingness of the American workforce to make a product of the highest order. Which they often did.
Not to mention, early on, on the coattails of the great English and German craftsman who came to this great country.

And welcome, I hope you enjoy your stay here. And do please stay, and show pictures.

[cb51]

I was wondering what kind of conditions must have been present in the U.S. for knives to evolve to the styles that are so typical of American knives. quote]


I would guess part of the reason is marketing, competition, and good old American ingenuity that produced designs for specific tasks.
Lots of frame designs, and lots of blade designs. And the willingness of the American workforce to make a product of the highest order. Which they often did.
Not to mention, early on, on the coattails of the great English and German craftsman who came to this great country.

And welcome, I hope you enjoy your stay here. And do please stay, and show pictures.

That's what I mean; lot of frame designs and blade designs. But why did it happen here and not over seas in the old country. For hundreds of years, the sodbuster type of knife was THE knife of eastern Europe, and the Navaja was THE knife of Spain and Portugal, and the puuko was THE design of the Scandinavian countries. So why, in the 1800's did the knife companies go nuts with three and even more blades on one knife? I have to confess, even though I grew up with the typical American pocket knife, I hated the design of having to dig and pull open the blade with a thumbnail. When I was about 12, I saw my first German Mercator in a surplus store, and bought it with my allowance. I loved it!!! And when the Buck came out, it was great. I guess I just look at the two and three bladed knives that are a PITA to open, and ask myself why?

I see in the market place, the old time slip joints have lost a lot of market, and most knife buyers these days seem to go for the one hand opening lockers. Much easier to deal with. I look at those old slip joint pocket knives and wonder why anyone would want a hard to open knife? Let alone one that does not have a lock on the blade.

[stancaiman]

It seems to me like the American made knives are mostly of the multiblade patterns, like barlows, jacks, and stockmen and reappers. When I was a kid, all the men carried the steriotypical two bladed little jackknives. But when I got older, and indulged my interest in knives, it seemed like all the European knives were mostly of the single blade type, mostly with locks, but not all. I've always liked that type of knife, over the hard to open slip joints that seem to be the home grown knives. I've got the old German Mercator K55, a French Dou-Douk, Swedish Eka Big Swede with the Normark label on it, and a German Henckels lockblade. Most of all is my favorite, the Opinel.

I was wondering what kind of conditions must have been present in the U.S. for knives to evolve to the styles that are so typical of American knives, when most of the same conditions were present in Europe but they just stuck with a simple single blade knife? I look at the three bladed stockman, and it seems like overkill to have three blades, vs just one and keep it sharp. Not looking for an answer, just musing out loud here to other knife nuts. Like why does the American cowboy need three blades, when an Argentine Gaucho or Spanish sheep herder has just used a large single blade knife like a sodbuster? And then you have the French using an Opinel for everything!

Just idle wondering of an inquiring mind. I guess it seems to me that the typical European knife is a more practical knife to carry. Simple and no nonsense single blade that most do not need a thumb nail to open, and thus can be opened with work gloves on. It's no wonder that when the Buck 110 came out in 1963, it was such a success. The Buck was more like a European style folder. Way easier to use.

about French style your conclusions are partially wrong : there is many multi blades in the french cutlery tradition (Nogent and Thiers productions) - Opinel is quite "modern" : his production begin at the end of 19th century

[zed6309]

also another point is when i was growing up in the uk most old guys carried 2 bladed penknives, mainly from sheffield, this to me was the norm, it wasnt untill i picked up a 110 copy when i was 11 that i was introduced to the single bladed hunting style knife,

[Quick Steel]

This in an interesting question.

I wonder if the emphasis on multiple blades could have resulted from the sheer size of the U.S. compared to western Europe which is relatively small. Should a rancher or farmer break or otherwise render his blade unusable he had immediate backup, smaller but still viable. It might be days, if not weeks to obtain a replacement.

The European farmer is much more village centered than his American counterpart.

This is pure speculation on my part. But it was fun trying to figure out a plausible answer. Thanks for the question.

[dkonopinski]

also another point is when i was growing up in the uk most old guys carried 2 bladed penknives, mainly from sheffield, this to me was the norm, it wasnt untill i picked up a 110 copy when i was 11 that i was introduced to the single bladed hunting style knife,

And the catalogues and pattern books of Sheffield manufacturers (now mostly gone) show that they were producing multi-blade patterns for the American markets long before the North American manufacturers found more efficient ways to do it. The pattern names were different to those we all use now in most cases.

David

[NYRich]

That's a very interesting question and one I've never considered. I don't imagine many of us realistically need more than a single blade to get us through the day.

During the 50+ years I've carried a pocket knife, I can't think of a time when I ever used any but the "main" blade. Most of my traditional knives are Case mini trappers and, other than to work a bit of oil into the pivot, I have never opened the spey blade on any of them. Of course, the purpose for which the spey blade was intended serves little purpose in New York City, although I could think of a few instances when I would like to have put it to use.

During the past few years, I've been carrying only single blade knives (like the small Texas toothpick or a small lockback). Working in an office environment, they more than serve the purpose.

Away from work, I often carry a "tactical" folder and find that a single 3"-4" blade is all that I really need. I do admit to carrying a small SAK with a cap lifter blade in case I run into a bottle without a twist-off cap.

[orvet]

I was wondering what kind of conditions must have been present in the U.S. for knives to evolve to the styles that are so typical of American knives, when most of the same conditions were present in Europe but they just stuck with a simple single blade knife? I look at the three bladed stockman, and it seems like overkill to have three blades, vs just one and keep it sharp. Not looking for an answer, just musing out loud here to other knife nuts. Like why does the American cowboy need three blades, when an Argentine Gaucho or Spanish sheep herder has just used a large single blade knife like a sodbuster? And then you have the French using an Opinel for everything!

I think Americans like to apply “American ingenuity” to their tools to refine them to do more efficiently the work for which they are used.

The popular Stockman pattern is essentially a knife designed for the cowboy, shepherd or someone else who works with animals on a daily basis. Most people in would have fallen into this category in 1900. It typically has a sheepfoot blade, a spey blade and a spey blade. In some patterns a punch blade is added in place of the spey or sheepfoot blade.

The clip blade is a general all-purpose knife blade. It is the longest blade on a stockman pattern and is used for tasks where a larger blade is helpful, and for general cutting chores such as skinning an animal or making shavings to start a fire. The fine point on the tip is good for detail work or for piercing cuts such as a cowboy would make on the ear of a steer when ear marking the cattle. Earmarking is cutting a certain pattern in one or both ears to identify cattle. I have also seen the long clip blade used to pierce though the hide of a cow’s back and into the 1st or 2nd stomach to relieve the stomach pressure of a cow that had the bloat, (best stand down wind). The process works well and the cow heals up quickly.

The sheepfoot blade is designed to trim hooves. The straight edge makes this easier to use than the slight curve in most clip blades, especially when the animal you are working on is not cooperative. The strong point created by the steep angle at the front of the blade is very useful for heavy cutting chores such as cutting hooves or in cutting thick leather.

The spey blade is ground thin (usually hollow ground) giving it a very thin and sharp edge; exactly the edge needed for castrating an animal. It is also great for field dressing animals, with the sweeping front edge of the blade. Many spey blades (especially those made by Case) were etched with the words: “FOR FLESH ONLY.” A fine sharp blade makes a cleaner cut that heals much faster than a ragged cut made by a duller blade. This is important when the cowboy is castrating a bunch of young bulls in a heard. The newly made steers are left in the herd on open rangeland. There was neither the manpower nor the place to separate these animals from the herd and doctor them if they got infected. So anything that helped them heal better and avoid infection was a good thing, (like a sharp knife to make a clean cut).

A forth blade often appearing in Cattle knives and sometimes in the Stockman pattern is the punch blade. A cowboy spent the day setting in a leather saddle and holding leather reigns in his hands. Teams of horses were harnessed with leather harnesses. It was inevitable that at some point a piece of critical leather equipment would fail and have to be repaired. Repairs were accomplished in the field by the cowboy himself with tools and materials at hand; usually his pocketknife and pieces of leather or perhaps a rivet.

Having grown up on a ranch I have seen these blades used for their respective purposes. It is not that a single blade could not be used for all the tasks; it is just that the appropriate blade for the job works easier, faster, makes cleaner cuts, and does a better job. Something Americans have historically taken pride in.