Specs on 4034 Steel

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swmp4L
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Specs on 4034 Steel

Postby swmp4L » Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:48 am

Can't seem to find anything about 4034 steel. Every search has led me to believe that it is a European grade steel 1.4034? Is that correct?

Cross referencing these numbers comes up with the US Equivalent of 420 steel. Carbon content .4-.6% vs 440c .95-1.25%

Is this correct?

Anyone know anything about 4034 steel?

Most Smith & Wesson knives that i've owned are 4034 stainless steel and I can't find anything about the properties of this specific steel....

Any help would be appreciated! Thanks!

-Tyler

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OLD GAR
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Re: Specs on 4034 Steel

Postby OLD GAR » Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:46 am

http://www.techstreet.com/direct/asm_al ... sample.pdf

This is about all I could find in a quick search.
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Darksev
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Re: Specs on 4034 Steel

Postby Darksev » Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:11 pm

took a bit of digging and translating, but 4034, or Remanit 4034 appears to be a European steel designation (had to translate a bunch of tech documents from German /shrug)

Also known as X46Cr13, this is a low allow basic stainless steel (Really, really low alloy :lol: ) it's composition is:

Carbon: .43 to .50%
Chromium: 12.5 to 14.5#%

and that's it. Considering it takes a minimum of 13% Cr to get a stainless designation, and a minimum of .4% carbon to make a halfway decent knife steel, I'd say it's about the low end of the spectrum. Even 420HC, which in my personal opinion is NOT a good blade steel (unless you want a dive knife) has more carbon, more Chromium, and vanadium, silicon and manganese for additional grain refinement, wear resistance and hardening properties

It's better than 420J2, which is the steel used in cheap replica "fantasy" weapons....but that's about it. For reference, 440C (A very good steel) is X105CrMo17 in german steel databases.

glenn
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Re: Specs on 4034 Steel

Postby glenn » Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:57 pm

::tu:: Good work!! ::tu:: D
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swmp4L
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Re: Specs on 4034 Steel

Postby swmp4L » Sun Nov 22, 2009 7:30 pm

Well that confirms my suspicions....

4034 isn't a very good knife steel....

I wonder why Taylor Brands LLC uses this type of steel for it's Smith and Wesson M&P line and Schrade lines......

They seem to hold their edge pretty decent, I only have to resharpen it once a month with daily HEAVY use, reaming pvc conduits, stripping wires etc...alot of the times scrapping into copper wires, copper being a softer metal but still, i consider it heavy use....

I will be emailing Taylor Brands and seeing if maybe it isn't the European spec? I will update.

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Re: Specs on 4034 Steel

Postby glenn » Sun Nov 22, 2009 7:41 pm

I thought the Taylor Old Timer used 440A.
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Darksev
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Re: Specs on 4034 Steel

Postby Darksev » Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:11 pm

Here's the thing about China... What you ask for is not always what you get. Sal Glesser, the man at the top of Spyderco has been quoted as saying, with regards to the Byrd line of knives something along the lines of "We asked them (the manufacturer in china) for 440C, they sent us what they called "Chinese 440C" and we had metallurgical tests run on it. it was no the correct composition for 440C here in America, so we asked them for the exact properties" The end result was 8Cr13MoV, which is a pretty decent steel.

If a companies quality control is not willing to go to the lengths to periodically check, chemically, their products, then what they assume is "440A" might well be something else entirely. I suspect that X46Cr13 is "Chinese 420" by the same logic.

As for why Taylor is using this steel, I suspect it has nothing to do with providing the best cutlery steel available to at price point X, and more to do with how much money can we save on production so that we can turn a profit on $15 knives (and at the same time rape the Schrade name for every penny we can*). They probably asked for 440A or 420, and when the product came in stuck a pin in it to verify RC within their tolerances and called it done.

Also, a point on edges. Do not confuse sharpness with toughness. A brick will hold up far longer than a razor when cutting down a tree. With any thin piece of steel (like a ground blade) there is a point of diminishing returns with regards to sharpness. Once the edge bevel becomes thick enough that it becomes stable, it will likely hold that edge for quite some time.... an extreme example, of course would be how often do you sharpen your butter knives? do they still cut food?

*note: while I cannot confirm that this was actually said, I have my opinions....

Hukk
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Re: Specs on 4034 Steel

Postby Hukk » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:32 pm

Darksev wrote:If a companies quality control is not willing to go to the lengths to periodically check, chemically, their products, then what they assume is "440A" might well be something else entirely. I suspect that X46Cr13 is "Chinese 420" by the same logic.

*note: while I cannot confirm that this was actually said, I have my opinions....


You are correct - AISI 420 (American SS) and X46Cr13 are the same. Because it has so little carbon it is more corrosion resistant than say 440C. 440A is also a low carbon steel and the attraction for both 440A and 420 (X46Cr13) is that it will stay shiny under adverse conditions.

Take a look at the second chart for Martensitic, Ferritic and Duplex grades. There are several that can be referred to as 420. http://www.burde-metal.si/palice/Ugitec ... illets.pdf
Last edited by Hukk on Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Darksev
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Re: Specs on 4034 Steel

Postby Darksev » Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:00 pm

I missed you Hukk! :mrgreen:

Hukk
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Re: Specs on 4034 Steel

Postby Hukk » Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:01 pm

Thanks Adam - glad to be back! ::tu:: ::tu:: ::tu:: ::ds::
Hukk

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noddy
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Re: Specs on 4034 Steel

Postby noddy » Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:52 pm

Interesting that it is so poor

Boker make a sports knife in smoked oak - like a boyscout camper - and sell it for, well, a lot. I can see one in the UK for well over £100

They make a big thing of this steel. The earlier, cheaper version of this knife (in stag) was in 440C. Shame they took this route, really. I have the stag/440C one, and it is a really nice knife

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bonehead
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Re: Specs on 4034 Steel

Postby bonehead » Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:09 am

swmp4l,

Don't know about 4034 Steel. However For comparison for a good quality Carbon Steel knife such as, and IMHO, one of the best steels used today for a Knife blades is designated as 1095. The AISI/SAE, American Iron and Steel Institute/Society of Automotive engineers. It has .95% carbon, enough to keep an edge sharp, but not too brittle. Almost a full 1% carbon. For Ref. the steel that GEC uses for their knives today.

Almost twice that of the steel in question here.

A reference ror a tangible comparison.
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