Similar to WWII Era British Clasp Knife...

[zorrothegreyblade]

Hello

Does anyone know anything about this knife? It is similar to many of the WWII Era Clasp knives issued to British Forces (also similar to the Post-WWII Knives used by Belgium). However there is no "Broad Arrow" marking anywhere on this knife, so I don't think it is British issue.
The only markings on the knife are:"S.K.S.77" on the main blade, and : "CC73465" with "000027" below that marking on the tin opener blade. I bought this from Atlanta Cutlery around 1999 or 2000 for an entire $5. If I recall correctly, they described the knife as being used by the Indian Navy (I assume they mean Post-Independance India (1948, I think)? Does anyone have any more information about this knife?
Mark

Hi Mark,

I'm new to this forum and am catching up on older threads, this one caught my attention as I am particularly interested in brit military knives. The CC mark is a British army clothing code. these pocket knives were considered to be items of personal clothing and equipment, hence the clothing code mark. therefore we can assume this knife is british army issue. S K is spot on (as usual) with the date, 1939-1940. I have no information for the mark SKS77 but will do some research and hopefully come back with more info.

Incidentally, because the knives were designated personal equipment, they did not have to be returned to stores when the soldiers were "demobbed", or returned to civilian life, which helps explain why there are still so many in circulation, even today.
Non of which explains the lack of an arrow mark and the apparent inferior grips, but I can offer a possible explanation:-

In 1939 it was obvious that Britain was going to war with Germany, the only question was when. all through that year the economy was changing to a war footing, production of all things military was increasing, including the humble army knife, and when war was finally declared in late summer there was a scramble to prepare and equip a large defence force to repel what was believed to be an immenent German invasion. Given that your knife is probably 1939 vintage, it is likely that its production involved inferior grips as it might have been made using the only material available, and in the rush to have it issued it may also have been "fast tracked" through the war department system and not have been arrow stamped because there simply was not time to follow usual proceedures.

This is of course pure conjecture, but 1939 was a terrifying time all over Europe, and the usual bureaucracy was sometimes bypassed in the race to be prepared for the coming fight for survival.

Hope this has helped,
Dave

[zorrothegreyblade]

Thank you everybody for the response so far. We might get this sussed out by next year...LOL. Oh well, I hope to actually have a real live WWII dated knife complete with Broad Arrow marking one of these years, so there will be no doubt as to where and when it was made...until that day.
Had my family stayed in England, this would be much easier, I swear...LOL.
Thank you for the photos Knife7Knut, I also have a knock-off 1968 dated knife, bought it at Springfields Army Store, In Burton-on-Trent, Staffs. back in 2002, it was cheap and did not know it was fake then. I'm living in Toledo, Ohio, just curious, did you find any of those knives in any of the antique stores in Tecumseh? My Girlfreind go there everyone in a while and I bought a No.4 Mk.II* Spike Bayonet at one of the stores there.
One last question, sort of off topic. I have a small Buck 503 lockback that I have no use for. If I posted in the Trading section about trading it (or partial trade) for a WWII-Era British Clasp Knife, would that be in the scope of reality?
Thank you
Mark

check out ebay uk, collectables, military, ww2, knives. there are usually some dated ones going through with sellers offering international postage, price depending on condition

Dave

[smiling-knife]

Thanks very much Dave for the information on the CC (Clothing Code) mark and the historical context. s-k

[TomcatPC]

Hello

Thanks for the information. The absence of a Broad Arrow marking threw me off, that is the main reason I wondered if it was in-fact actual WWII British. So far it seems the opinion is that it is in-fact WWII British (that is what I wanted to hear...LOL) sounds logical to me.
Thanks again.
Mark

[zorrothegreyblade]

Hi Mark,

Glad you have come back to your post. Been thinking about your Knife, I reckon it's an early 1939 (pre september, outbreak of war) with pressed leather grips. Bexoid grips were replacing pressed leather in 1939, although pressed leather was still used into ths 40's, either old stock or when bexoid was not available. the other reason I think it's pre september 39 is the clothing code number. I believe this code was not, or was rarely used during the war as the army changed from professional to conscript and the large volume of knives being made meant that they were issued generally rather than stamped for a specific soldier.

The clothing code may also explain the lack of a date stamp, as the date of issue would be the same as the soldier's enlistment date which would be on record.

Is SKS77 which is stamped on the blade clearly legible? The reason I ask is that the makers mark should be clearly stamped on the blade or can opener, sometimes on both.If it is a makers mark it is not one I can find, but I am not familiar with knives of this type made outside of Sheffield, and I believe afew were manufactured in Birmingham and London, so it could be one of these. The only two I am aware of who used initials are W&S.B. and J.B&S both of Sheffield.

The broad arrow stamp which appears to be missing from your knife was a standard patern but not a standard size. the size varied depending on which depot it was stamped at. Whereabouts on the knife it was stamped depended on where there was space available and presumably also on the guy who was stamping lt! Some knives were not perfectly stamped, especially when stamped on the spike. The spike on your knife appears to have been well used, and if it had been lightly stamped there it could very easily have been worn off. Some were stamped on the tang very low down, and again this could have worn off.

Now this last bit is pure guesswork, but bear with me! There could very easily be an Indian conection. In 1939 India was still part of the British empire, and there was a large British military presence there. Your knife could very easily have travelled there as part of the kit of a soldier posted to India, and have ended up becoming the property of a sailor based there. If the knife arrived in the USA via an Indian ship or sailor, Whoever bought it would quite rightly say it was probably Indian navy. Most people who own an old knife have a story to tell about it!!

So in conclusion, far from being a dissapointment, I think you have a very rare and interesting piece of history there my friend, and if you ever want to get rid of it I will gladly give it pride of place in my collection!

[zorrothegreyblade]

I think I've found your knife, or at least one that is very similar, on ebay UK! It is an Indian copy of the British issue, one I've never seen before, and is described as follows:- [ WW2 Indian Army soldiers pocket knife with hand chequered horn grips. Blade marked JAYNEROY 1942 with issue stamp SLK *** partially stamped on spike ]. Best match I can come up with up to now, going to keep digging! http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... :IT&ih=020

[TomcatPC]

That makes sense, I always had a gut feeling this (my clasp knife) was made in India. So with India being part of the British Empire until 1947, it is one more piece of kit that was made in India. Little by little my collection of British kit that is Indian-made is growing. I have a Pattern-1907 Bayonet, another Pattern-1907 Bayonet that was cut-down in India, various pieces of Pattern-1937 Webbing , and now this knife which I thought was Indian all along...LOL. Thank you for the information, living here in the US, not many people know that much about these knives, thanks again.
Mark

[zorrothegreyblade]

You're more than welcome Mark, think you have a real rarity there, I have seen the indian ones with the red fibre grips but it's the first time I've come across this pattern with a description. It finaly sold for over £13, about $26? Not a huge price, but more than double an equivalent British army one in the same condition. With India being part of the empire during WW2 as you said, they must have used the clothing code as in britain, that confused the hell out of me!
This is what I love about old knives, researching the history really is fascinating.

[zorrothegreyblade]

I have seen a red fibre handled version with the tang stamp NKF, which is probably the Nagpur Knife Factory. Yours is stamped SKS, the recent one on ebay was stamped SLK, it's possible these were also factory stamps?