Freehand Sharpening

[vikingdog]

There are bits and pieces of info scattered throughout the various forums about freehand sharpening. Any chance of getting some of you Old School guys like me to post your thoughts, techinques, various kind of stones etc. here? Any information about freehand sharpening would be appreciated.

I've always sharpened my knives on a stone but had mixed results. I'm trying to refine my skills with what I learn here. I picked up a good sized carborundum stone at the flea market last week and it seems to do a pretty good job.

[buck16]

Here goes: As a man said "it isn't the rock it is technique." If there is not agood factory edge on knife or it is too dull "to cut butter" then start with ruff stone. Face blade blade away from you pull toward you ; reverse of trying to slice the rock. Do this an equal # of times on each side. I do 10,8,6, 4, 3 ,2, 1. You should have a good edge pulled back by then depending on hardness of metal and initial dull ness. Then on smooth stone push and pull against grain of stone the same 10,8,6......... between 17 to 20 degree angle. The more you do then you will be able to feel and hear when edge is getting smooth. You may progress to finer stone to get a finer edge. If you don't have a strop then use the backside of a leather belt . Strop away from edge with only a very little angle to smooth the edge. Test on paper for sharpness. Works for me. Good luck

[derf red bone]

I got myself a DMT diamond whetstone. man, talk about easy. dont think ill ever go back to stone. just some water with a very very small dab of liquid soap and i can even get cheap stainless darn sharp in little time. the coarse stone works great on bad steel but get the fine if you have good blades. i bought the 2 by 6 inch stones. they are not cheap, but i think they are worth it.

[Knife Nut]

My technique is a rather simplistic one:
If the edge is very dull, I stroke across a course carborundum stone to get my edge established at 20-22 degrees.
I follow that with the same angle on a hard Arkansas stone with oil trying to "shave" the top of the stone like Buck said.
Final honing is done with a razor strop.
If I can shave the hair on the back of my hand......mission completed!
Don't over do it, it's not rocket science.

Paul

[remington collector]

After you finish sharpening your knife, lay it on a table with the edge of the blade facing up, lay a dollar bill across the edge, if the weight of the dollar bill causes it to be cut it half consider the knife sharp enough.

[Aimus Moses]

There are bits and pieces of info scattered throughout the various forums about freehand sharpening. Any chance of getting some of you Old School guys like me to post your thoughts, techinques, various kind of stones etc. here? Any information about freehand sharpening would be appreciated.

I've always sharpened my knives on a stone but had mixed results. I'm trying to refine my skills with what I learn here. I picked up a good sized carborundum stone at the flea market last week and it seems to do a pretty good job.

Hey Mike, you could pick you up a couple of cheap Imperial knives with carbon steel blades off of flea-bay and practice with them. If you mess up getting your first edge angled right, just dull the cheap knife and start over again. Once you have honed (no pun intended) your skill of sharpening with them and feel comfortable with free hand sharpening, you can go on to your more costly knives that you plan on EDC. Free hand isn't a real hard thing to do. Once you train your hand and mind through practice, it's like riding a bike...you never forget how to do it. Let us know how your doing with it. Good luck.

Aimus

[vikingdog]

Thanks for the responses. Good idea Aimus...

[FRJ]

As you may be aware of from former posts, I use stones exclusively. This preference means that I have limited experience in the field of knife sharpening accessories, but I find most of the accessories available and the systems that can be had are easily dismissed when one has experience with stones; many stones. Please, I don’t regard other ways of sharpening knives as inappropriate or less than valid. They certainly will work and some folks will find it difficult to consider any other way of putting an edge on a knife. But I do urge you to consider stones. Looking back at another thread, PigSticker allowed that he would spit on a sidewalk and liven up an edge in desperate times.
A stone of sorts, no?
So, it’s stones for me. The more stones you have to choose from the more refined your sharpening can be. All stones aren’t the same. Man made carborundum, and India stones can very different in structure. Certainly earth stones can vary widely. There is also much to be learned about early naturally occurring stones in Japan, and Belgium, and probably many other places.
Man made waterstones made in Japan, and those made by Norton and others are probably closer in structure than any stones according to grade. This is an assumption, and all of what I’m offering here is just from my own experience and observations. I am not an expert on stones, or sharpening, or anything else for that matter. The point is, having lots of stones gives you lots of choices. Choices for the many different types, and lengths of blades you have. Also, different hardness of blades. And how about those blades that are so dull you soon realize you have a good deal of time facing you in making it right. So, choices. I’ll use this stone for this blade, and I’ll use this stone for that blade. Really, the idea is refinement. Knowing your stones, and getting introduced to and knowing your blades. You don’t just have knives, you’ve got blades, and lots of them, hopefully.
Frankly, I’ve never heard of the push/pull method described earlier.
For me, I hold the blade as though I were slicing off the top of the stone. If I’m using a coarse stone I may stay on one side of the blade a little longer to establish an edge before going to the other side to do the same .And I press very hard on the stone. I make that stone work for me. And I do move my blade in circular motion as well. Pressing hard and working the edge on to my finer stones. Most of my knives don’t require a coarse stone, but sometimes a new blade/new to me, needs to be shaped. Buy the largest stones you can afford or get your hands on.
If you want to practice, flea markets are full of inexpensive knives to work on. I would recommend 4 to 7 inch kitchen knives. They are easy to sharpen and they don’t fold on you, and they can be cheap.
I use water on my stones with a very little bit of soap to break the surface tension of the water and allow it to saturate the stone more readily. I do this on all my stones from coarse carborundum on down to my finest Norton waterstone. I want the stone to abrade the steel as efficiently as possible. I don’t want the blade to slide over it as it would with a petroleum agent. This just makes sense to me, and I find it very favorable, and I’m more attuned to the blade and stone. Using water also allows me to remove sharpening debris from the surface of the stone very quickly to continue sharpening and cleaning the stone.
A word about visuals. I use a visor magnifier. It has two different strength lenses, plus a swing down loupe. I love it for sharpening, and many other things I’m curious about, and it leaves my hands free.
Also one of your best friends is light. Lots of it. So you can see that new virgin steel in a cutting edge that you designed that was waiting there for you to fashion any way you want.
Also, once you get the hang of this, it is fast, not slow. .........You want to strop? No leather? Use clean smooth card board...... Use clean smooth plywood. Like I told my kids... Never be afraid to break the rules!!!

[vikingdog]

Nice write up and pictures Joe, very nice! You've given me some ideas in this post and the earlier one about the knife sharpening systems. "I use water on my stones with a very little bit of soap" is something I'm going to try, and leaning more about the various types of stones and what they're best suited for. Also viewing the edge under magnification. I don't know why I didn't think of that.

Thanks for the great post Joe, you should do a video on YouTube. Seriously.

[FRJ]

Thanks for your nice comments, Mike. I’m glad I could offer some ideas about sharpening. My approach is quit personal I know, and other folks may have vastly different ways of sharpening. Some of which have been posted.
I hope this thread doesn’t end with my yarn. I, too, would like to hear how other experienced, and inexperienced knife handlers sharpen their blades. After all, if you use your knives, it’s a rather critical part of ownership.

YouTube!! Sheesh, man. Why, I wouldn’t know where to begin.
Besides, cameras become extraordinarily fragile in my presence.

[vikingdog]

Joe, I'm thinking my friend Froggyedge might be along soon to post. I find it to be relaxing and rewarding to sharpen my knives by hand. There's something appealing about it to me. I like your approach and way of thinking about it.

[philco]

One hint I might share is this.......If you are not sure just what is going on as you sharpen your blade, use a black magic marker to darken the cutting edge of your knife then make a few passes over the stone. The part where the knife contacts the stone will quickly rub off while the part not contacting the stone will remain. You may be surprised with what that may reveal and it can be a good way to learn how you may need to modify your sharpening technique for better results.
'(rubbing alcohol will remove the black markings that remain)

Oh yeah, it also helps if you hold your mouth right while sharpening.

Phil

[FRJ]

Phil, that's a terrific idea. I will try that soon. Thanks.

[Froggyedge]

Great thread and interesting posts!

I'll be happy to make my contribution! I will go hunting now on my hard drive for some pics to use as illustrations, and I have just taken a few new ones.

There are many roads leading to Rome and it's very interesting to read how you get there, so please keep posting!

[vikingdog]

Thank you everyone for all the great information. Does anyone use an Arkansas oilstone? I have one, it says "soft", and I've never had any luck with it. Any suggestions? I'm satisfied with the carborundum right now but I'm curious about the Arkansas stone.

Looking forward to your post Frode!

[Aimus Moses]

I have a Arkansas stone that works OK for me. A man can never have too many stones (except kidney & gall stones). If I rounded all mine up there's probably 12 to 15 of them. I have some favorites though and those are the ones I keep up with the most. They go from coarse to extremely fine in grit. I use an old leather belt to finish a blade. I have seen 1500 grit sand paper glued to a mouse pad and the blade pulled spine first across it to finish a blade. I've never done that but whatever works is all that matters. Different stones and sharpening methods are comparable to using a Ford or a Chevy to go somewhere, it doesn't matter just as long as you get to the point you want to be at. It's interesting to read the different ways of sharpening a knife though.

Aimus

[FRJ]

Mike, I'll bet that when you used that "soft" Arkansas stone it seemed like you were polishing the blade. A soft Arkansas stone isn't all that soft. It's just softer than a black hard Arkansas which is one of the finer stones of that type.
You may have wanted a coarser stone to develop an edge and thought the "soft" stone was appropriate.
If I'm correct, your difficulty was a simple matter of choosing the wrong stone. Once you understand texture and grade of stones you will be much more efficient. I think this can be a bigger problem than learning to draw the blade across the stone. In time you will be able to choose a stone by the way it looks and feels according to your task.
Aimus is right. A man can't have too many stones. On the other hand, not to throw a wrench in the gears, if I had just one 8" carborundum two sided stone, I could survive pretty well. They just aint as purdy as the others.

[vikingdog]

It seems like it doesn't really do anything to the blade. I haven't used it for awhile but I'll try it again later, without oil as per your post on another thread imported here for reference. It is a good looking piece of stone though, mounted in that cedar box and all.

"I stoped using oil on them almost from the beginning. I use water with a very small amount of dishsoap in it. The soap simply breaks the surface of the water and also makes it thinner. That's all I need of it. Oil acts as a lubricant, obviously, between blade and stone. I don't want a lubricant that inhibits cutting."

"Once you understand texture and grade of stones you will be much more efficient. I think this can be a bigger problem than learning to draw the blade across the stone." I agree Joe and that's going to be my focus...

[vikingdog]

A couple good YouTube videos of a bladesmith at work. Almost a half a million views of the first one as he goes for scary sharp:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuOlGGl97dI

The follow up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ksn0tjpH5_8&NR=1

Good thing he's got steady hands.

[Froggyedge]

Shaving sharp is what I'm usually aiming for, but testing on my beard..? Not sure about that...

I'll try to post something here soon. Simply haven't had the time to finish my post yet.

[buck16]

"Well. there you go again" another very common sense tip that I have picked up from Phil. Thanks Buddy

[philco]

Thank you everyone for all the great information. Does anyone use an Arkansas oilstone? I have one, it says "soft", and I've never had any luck with it. Any suggestions? I'm satisfied with the carborundum right now but I'm curious about the Arkansas stone.

Looking forward to your post Frode!

The soft Arkansas stone is intended to be used in conjunction with a hard Arkansas stone. You start with the soft stone and then finish up using the hard stone. If you don't have a hard stone to finish on, you aren't getting the knife edge as smooth as it needs to be. That is what the hard stone helps to do.

I use a Smith's Tri-Hone which has a man made coarse stone along with medium (soft) and fine (hard) Arkansas stones. I can get my blades pretty darned sharp using this system, but I like to finish up using some ceramic rods then an old leather belt.

I also have a Smith's diamond hone with coarse and fine grits. It works the edge down a bit more quickly than the Arkansas stones but seems to also remove a lot more metal in the process.

Phil

[cbnutt]

wheres a good place to order a carborundum stone, and would a medium mabe be recomended if you were just gonna have the one carborundum , as i have a few differant grit in arkansas aready, mabe the med carborundum to start with and finish with a very fine ark. ?

[vikingdog]

There's a lot of them on ebay for just about any price you want to pay. Some nice vintage ones in wooden boxes etc. I bought mine at a flea market for $6. Check the size before you buy, I know some of the ones for razors are pretty small.

Take a look at these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/CARBORUNDUM-POCKET- ... ltDomain_0

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Carborundum ... ltDomain_0

http://cgi.ebay.com/Nice-Carborundum-Sh ... ltDomain_0

[cbnutt]

heres a place i searched out, http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/