All About Pocket Knives

Here's another one for the German Russell tang stamp collection, along with same knife but Boker-branded and clad in Delrin. The five-feather arrows seem to always be a dead giveaway of a German build.

I am brand new to pocket knives. I wanted a Russel Barlow for the trivial reason that I heard "Barlow knife" mentioned in a song. This was an interesting thread, but I just forgot everything I read. Plus I have to look up a lot of new words pertaining to pocket knives. Is there a simple list of things to avoid when looking for a Russel Barlow while in antique stores?

Thanks.

Larry

Larry look at pictures, if you know anyone that collects Russells ask if you can look them over. Learn to read knives , ask specific questions of knowledgeable people, there is no easy road in collectables of any antiques and more than likely you will get bit at some point. A lot of times you can find old used up knives at a decent price study them. Learn learn learn knowledge is king. Have fun.

big homer, I agree that I have to read through this forum and learn knife language. I just thought that if such a list existed, it could steepen my learning curve, and save me money in the antique stores.

I appreciate your reply and I will get busy with pocket knives 101.

Thanks

Thing about Russell Barlows, and lots of other cutlers in general, is that trademarks and factories changed so often and were so undocumented in many cases during and after the industrial revolution that many of these companies both in the USA and abroad never really enjoyed a properly-curated company/brand history. So the entire concept of "real Russell Barlow" might even be up for some interpretation.

There's really no 'cheat sheet' short of bringing a smartphone with AAPK in the browser and searching to see if there are examples and any trivia that have already been discussed. If not, widen your search to Google. And always remember: The ultimate value of any knife is whatever price a seller and buyer can agree upon.

These are my Mystery Russells, both considered for the purposes of this threads "fake" Russells I believe. The green daddy Barlow is clearly some sort of modern knockoff/repro/whatever, but it's built solid, looks good, and has this awesome oversized Zulu spear blade that snaps like a gator. The white bone Barlow seems to tick some of the "real Russell" boxes but has a long pull and that offset stamp on the pen blade where the L runs off the edge. For what I paid the rule "If it seems too good to be true it probably is" seems to apply. Still, it's another rock-solid knife and it looks awful purdy.

When Russell Harrington repaired knives for Bear Cat club members in the 1950s the replacement blades were stamped with the R and a diamond on each side . These examples are very hard to find but I was able to buy one . The stamp is very worn but readable . Hoping to find a better one but haen't yet . I am 75 and have seen a lot of Russells and know the frame is an original . While the 1998 remakes did have this stamp no one should be fooled by those . I agree that 75% of so called originals ran on Ebay are either modern copies or out right counterfeits . Saw one sell for $140.00 as an original that even a novice should have known better . Middle pin not centered and the blade pin was not even close to proper position. Looked brand new because it was. "Let the buyer beware" !!!

This was such a good thread - are any of you still active? New to antique Small Russell Barlows but after all the combined detailed info, I've spotted fakes in the wild. But what about this one?

Someone previously said "First Red Flag is that it's photographed on Red!"
1. Pins are centered
2. Pins are nickel, not brass
3. Straight tang mark in appropriate font
4. Appropriate amount of pitting
5. Appropriate color and texture of saw cut bone

Looks like the edge has been reshaped with wear over the years... but... I'm still stopped by that RED BACKGROUND.

Real or Fake?

It's real, also the pins are steel not brass

Red background means nothing.

Miller Bro's wrote:It's real, also the pins are steel not brass

Red background means nothing.

Was wondering about that - previous poster specified nickel but that is too soft of a metal for a working pin.
Thanks for confirmation!

Thought I would post this on the thread. Have it in a separate thread but the info should probably be here.
These blades were acquired some time ago from a friend and there has been some discussion as to what they actually were used for. The large pivot holes,the stamped numbers, and the unusual cut outs on some of the blades(possibly to locate the position of the nail mark)suggest they may have been tools used at the factory. The different stampings may be of help as well.

I have to chime in and say thank you for all of the research and information on this thread. I guess I might rock the boat with this opinion, but I have never referred to a contract knife as a fake knife. As you all likely know, Case had contract knives made as well. They are genuine Case products, sold as Case by the Case company, but contracted out to other manufacturers. In my opinion, there are just way too many Russell knives out there (the earlier Russell knives) with the non-centered handle pin configuration to believe someone was cranking out fake Russell Barlow knives by the hundreds in their dimly lit garage . I think we need to be careful not to degrade the contracted Russell Barlow knives. In other words, I can see many collectors running to their knife rolls to see if they have been duped into buying fake Russell knives when, in fact, they are not fake. (If any of you want to unload your Russell Barolows with non-centered handle pins, I'd be glad to take those fakes off your hands for, say a couple of bucks apiece! )

I've been wanting to post this for a while and as it is raining here today. I thought I would work on it. There is a lot of confusion about one series of the Russell Barlow reproduction's. The series of 7 knives is pictured and described in Dewey Fergusons' Romance of Collecting Knives printed in 1978 and is copyrighted by him. You can read what he has to say and also look at the pictures of the knives. While Mr. Ferguson states that there is no definitive way to tell the difference between these knives and the originals, in fact over time it has been discovered that all 7 of these knives have the rear pin towards the bottom of the knife. Jerry I know you are handy doing that and perhaps you could circle the rear pins on the 7 knives to show the difference in location between these knives and the originals and other reproduction's. Also note these were not authorized reproductions and Dexter Russell caused production of these knives to cease. Also note this is the series of knives that has a standard size Russell with no "R" on the bolster and also has the daddy Barlow with the off color bone that really stands out from other Russell's. These knives are often billed as old, authentic, and original. They are none of the above. They were made in 1971 and sold for less than $20. What you do see today is that these knives are bringing better price that the Schrade or Colonial Russell reproductions. I suppose collectors are trying to put together a set of all 7? I'll come back in and add more pics of examples after the original post.

This is a picture of the daddy Barlow of this series with the off color bone posted by Tsar Bomba. Notice the rear pin.

Another one that is currently (10 21 19) for sale on Ebay.

This is a good picture of the knife in the series without an "R" on the bolster. Notice the location of the rear pin.

Thanks for the identifying information on my granddaddy Russell repro. I always figured it was a newer model but never knew anything substantive. These materials are just what the doctor ordered.

I noticed the rest of the spear blades have more of a standard spear profile while the 601 has a "Zulu spear" style blade. I always thought that was notable regardless of heritage.

I'm assuming the Boker Russell reproductions I posted in this thread (five feathers) were authorized by Russell unlike the 70s knockoffs?

Frost is cranking out Valley Forge, Honk Falls, Miller Bros and others, but I do not see these as "originals" just because he bought the rights to use the tang stamp. In my opinion he's helping create a situation where reproductions could be confused as legitimate antique knives. They might not be counterfeit but they are fakes in my book, they have no connection to the knives made by these companies originally.

They are reproductions made the same way they once were.
I imagine the only difference would be the quality of steel.

Reproductions are fine as long as you're not thinking you're getting an antique knife and paying an antique price for that knife. People get duped all the time on eBay with knives that aren't what they're being sold as.

1967redrider wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:20 am Reproductions are fine as long as you're not thinking you're getting an antique knife and paying an antique price for that knife. People get duped all the time on eBay with knives that aren't what they're being sold as.

#1-If it looks too good to be true .............. it isn't genuine.
#2-If the seller does not allow returns or refunds the knife is not real, a re-due or re-pop.
#3-Only buy from sellers with 100% feedback or study the reason why they don't. It could just be from bad buyers, scammers.
I bought a lot of knives from eBay & as of yet never got taken with the three rule approach above.

That should be posted on eBay.

1967redrider wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:01 am That should be posted on eBay.

It takes a lot of reading in the fine print on eBay's site but it actually does state all these warnings and more info on what to watch for when making bids or purchases.
A sellers good reputation is your best bet to purchase from when diddling around on the Bay for blades.
I buy from sellers I've been buying from for years.

blade objective wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:35 am They are reproductions made the same way they once were.
I imagine the only difference would be the quality of steel.

Actually they are not, unless by "made the same way they once were" you mean they have blades, bolsters, springs and liners. Otherwise the patterns being made now and stamped with those hallowed names are mostly not the same patterns, materials or quality as the originals. The new ones come in materials and IMHO hideous colors never produced by the original companies.

I agree with redrider's previous post - I find the Frost "reproductions" to be nothing more than a blatant and shameful attempt to capitalize on those old brand names. (However I guess in some ways it's good that the newly made knives are so obviously different that even a semi-knowledgeable person would know they're not authentic originals.)

If someone wants to make a quality knife that stands on its own merits, create a new brand name. Don't try to run a scam operation off the reputation built by a now-defunct company. Unless you're going to honor that reputation by putting the name on a product that respects the quality and tradition the name represents, don't use the name. The Camillus-made reproductions of original Remingtons, and the current Maher & Gross reproductions are examples of how it should be done if one is going to use old company brand names.

JMO. Sorry for the somewhat off topic rant.

Ken

Mumbleypeg wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:59 am

blade objective wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:35 am They are reproductions made the same way they once were.
I imagine the only difference would be the quality of steel.

Actually they are not, unless by "made the same way they once were" you mean they have blades, bolsters, springs and liners. Otherwise the patterns being made now and stamped with those hallowed names are mostly not the same patterns, materials or quality as the originals. The new ones come in materials and IMHO hideous colors never produced by the original companies.

I agree with redrider's previous post - I find the Frost "reproductions" to be nothing more than a blatant and shameful attempt to capitalize on those old brand names. (However I guess in some ways it's good that the newly made knives are so obviously different that even a semi-knowledgeable person would know they're not authentic originals.)

If someone wants to make a quality knife that stands on its own merits, create a new brand name. Don't try to run a scam operation off the reputation built by a now-defunct company. Unless you're going to honor that reputation by putting the name on a product that respects the quality and tradition the name represents, don't use the name. The Camillus-made reproductions of original Remingtons, and the current Maher & Gross reproductions are examples of how it should be done if one is going to use old company brand names.

JMO. Sorry for the somewhat off topic rant.

Ken

It's like you read my mind, Ken.

And before I forget, to AAPK blade objective, lots of great info here for us knife enthusiasts!

John

1967redrider wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:40 pm

Mumbleypeg wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:59 am

blade objective wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:35 am They are reproductions made the same way they once were.
I imagine the only difference would be the quality of steel.

Actually they are not, unless by "made the same way they once were" you mean they have blades, bolsters, springs and liners. Otherwise the patterns being made now and stamped with those hallowed names are mostly not the same patterns, materials or quality as the originals. The new ones come in materials and IMHO hideous colors never produced by the original companies.

I agree with redrider's previous post - I find the Frost "reproductions" to be nothing more than a blatant and shameful attempt to capitalize on those old brand names. (However I guess in some ways it's good that the newly made knives are so obviously different that even a semi-knowledgeable person would know they're not authentic originals.)

If someone wants to make a quality knife that stands on its own merits, create a new brand name. Don't try to run a scam operation off the reputation built by a now-defunct company. Unless you're going to honor that reputation by putting the name on a product that respects the quality and tradition the name represents, don't use the name. The Camillus-made reproductions of original Remingtons, and the current Maher & Gross reproductions are examples of how it should be done if one is going to use old company brand names.

JMO. Sorry for the somewhat off topic rant.

Ken

It's like you read my mind, Ken.

And before I forget, to AAPK blade objective, lots of great info here for us knife enthusiasts!

John

Thanks for the info and welcome.
I was a member years ago with the other popular knife forum but faded away from collecting.
Rejoined that other forum a few months ago but found it not like it was.
Full of a lot of very ignorant arrogant members who are full of you know what.
I ask a legit question about a particular knife brand and was treated like a mentally challenged person with wise cracks.
That type of forum is not for me so I came here.
So far I've gotten adult intelligent answers from AAPK which is the forum I am in looking for.
I'm guessing, hoping all the members I used to know on that other forum migrated to this one?

I only buy antique knives 100 years or older from reputable sellers.
I doubt there are many old new stock around which brings up red flags with these knives.
And if there are any still around I wouldn't be able to afford them anyway.

blade objective wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:41 pm
I only buy antique knives 100 years or older from reputable sellers.
I doubt there are many old new stock around which brings up red flags with these knives.
And if there are any still around I wouldn't be able to afford them anyway.

You should post some pictures here, we would love to see what you've collected. Plus we're all about sharing and learning from others on this site.