All About Pocket Knives

philco wrote: ↑Sun May 22, 2022 11:13 am Use a much more acute angle of blade against stone and focus on maintaining that same angle for the entirety of each stroke.

Phil, I cannot thank you enough for that information! I'll give it another go as the day progresses.

catspa wrote: ↑Sun May 22, 2022 8:52 pm I would add one thing that works for me: orient the tri-hone so it’s end on to you.

Will give that a try, too.

Mumbleypeg wrote: ↑Mon May 23, 2022 1:26 am I just squirt some oil on the stone, and start sharpening. The blade will spread it with each stroke.

I'll do that in the future as well. Will also have a look at the videos you and Phil linked.

I still intend to order up a Lansky Turnbox. (If the kitchen knives came into contact with that honing oil, I'd wind up in the doghouse!)

Again, many thanks to all for the helpful advice!

Dan In MI wrote: ↑Mon May 23, 2022 4:47 pm (If the kitchen knives came into contact with that honing oil, I'd wind up in the doghouse!)

Use water, it works great. -------------------- better, in my opinion --------------

Hoping those videos are helpful to you Dan. Especially as related to correct sharpening angles and technique. Out of curiosity I took a look at the Lansky Turnbox and my thoughts are that if one has the manual dexterity to hold the blade at the proper position and angle for using it, they can most certainly use a stone. As for having oil in contact with kitchen cutlery, I converted from oil to water as the preferred liquid several years ago. Same stones, just use water. (Many old time sharpeners swear by using "spit"!) BTW if you want to use oil, mineral oil is a good honing oil. And diamond stones I use now don't require any liquid.

Ken

The videos certainly have been helpful. Thanks to Ken and Phil for steering me toward them.

After many whacks across both stone and strop, here's where the 104OT stands:
One side of the blade has a better edge that the other. My guess is that I still need to develop the required muscle memory. Seems the 104OT wouldn't have really benefitted from being dragged across the coarse stone. Though I did notice that the coarse stone absorbs oil very quickly; why, I don't know.

As regards water vs. oil, I've read that one should use whatever was originally put to the stone for the life of the stone. Is there any truth to that, or is it a bunch of hogwash?

Thanks to all for the continuing help!

When I have a previously soaked oilstone that I want to convert to using with water, I boil it in a shallow pan sitting on a rag for about 15 minutes.

I’ve done this on 3 different 1$ yard sale stones, and they’ve all endured it pretty well. I don’t claim that every stone will.

Parker

Dan In MI wrote: ↑Mon May 23, 2022 8:58 pm The videos certainly have been helpful. Thanks to Ken and Phil for steering me toward them.

After many whacks across both stone and strop, here's where the 104OT stands:

104OT Sharpening Work.jpg

One side of the blade has a better edge that the other. My guess is that I still need to develop the required muscle memory. Seems the 104OT wouldn't have really benefitted from being dragged across the coarse stone. Though I did notice that the coarse stone absorbs oil very quickly; why, I don't know.

As regards water vs. oil, I've read that one should use whatever was originally put to the stone for the life of the stone. Is there any truth to that, or is it a bunch of hogwash?

Thanks to all for the continuing help!

As a general rule once you use oil on a stone you will have to keep using oil. You can remove oil from a stone, but very difficult to remove it all. Use whatever you are comfortable with and works for you. I have a couple of turnbox sharpeners and i think they are fantastic, if, you know how to use them, there are some little tricks that i use that make them so much better. Message me if you need any help. But i don't know how much they cost over there or the availability of spare rods, but i would buy the one with diamond rods and get the 600 grit ceramic at the same time if you can and can afford it, well worth it. Keep plugging away, you will improve with practice, once you get the basics right it all becomes a lot easier. But i can be daunting starting out but just keep practicing and taking your time.

Dan In MI wrote: ↑Mon May 23, 2022 8:58 pm The videos certainly have been helpful. Thanks to Ken and Phil for steering me toward them.

After many whacks across both stone and strop, here's where the 104OT stands:

104OT Sharpening Work.jpg

One side of the blade has a better edge that the other. My guess is that I still need to develop the required muscle memory. Seems the 104OT wouldn't have really benefitted from being dragged across the coarse stone. Though I did notice that the coarse stone absorbs oil very quickly; why, I don't know.

As regards water vs. oil, I've read that one should use whatever was originally put to the stone for the life of the stone. Is there any truth to that, or is it a bunch of hogwash?

Thanks to all for the continuing help!

The coarser stone is more porous - hence the larger grit, so it is more absorbent.

I’ve not heard that about stones before. You and cudgee are giving me an education! All of mine are carborundum, or natural (Arkansas). When I changed to water I just scrubbed them thoroughly with a stiff brush in hot soapy water as when cleaning them. Rinse well and start using them with water. If it makes any difference I’m ignorant of it (along with many other things)! I have a few older stones that have never been used with anything other than oil though. I just don’t use them any longer, or never did use them much to begin with. Sorta like knives and holsters - got more than I need. Although they do sell them I’ve never owned a “water stone” specifically made for use with water.

I also have ceramic stones and rods (Case Moonstone for example), and diamond plate “stones”. They don’t need oil. And a couple of thick pieces of leather, which I seldom use although they work great if you want a shaving edge. One of them belonged to my grandfather and is a piece from an old leather conveyor belt - it’s probably at least 100 years old.

Ken

Mumbleypeg wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 5:06 am

Dan In MI wrote: ↑Mon May 23, 2022 8:58 pm The videos certainly have been helpful. Thanks to Ken and Phil for steering me toward them.

After many whacks across both stone and strop, here's where the 104OT stands:

104OT Sharpening Work.jpg

One side of the blade has a better edge that the other. My guess is that I still need to develop the required muscle memory. Seems the 104OT wouldn't have really benefitted from being dragged across the coarse stone. Though I did notice that the coarse stone absorbs oil very quickly; why, I don't know.

As regards water vs. oil, I've read that one should use whatever was originally put to the stone for the life of the stone. Is there any truth to that, or is it a bunch of hogwash?

Thanks to all for the continuing help!

The coarser stone is more porous - hence the larger grit, so it is more absorbent.

I’ve not heard that about stones before. You and cudgee are giving me an education! All of mine are carborundum, or natural (Arkansas). When I changed to water I just scrubbed them thoroughly with a stiff brush in hot soapy water as when cleaning them. Rinse well and start using them with water. If it makes any difference I’m ignorant of it (along with many other things)! I have a few older stones that have never been used with anything other than oil though. I just don’t use them any longer, or never did use them much to begin with. Sorta like knives and holsters - got more than I need. Although they do sell them I’ve never owned a “water stone” specifically made for use with water.

I also have ceramic stones and rods (Case Moonstone for example), and diamond plate “stones”. They don’t need oil. And a couple of thick pieces of leather, which I seldom use although they work great if you want a shaving edge. One of them belonged to my grandfather and is a piece from an old leather conveyor belt - it’s probably at least 100 years old.

Ken

Mate, if you can any chance of posting a couple of pics of your Grandfathers leather strop and your other one. They sound very interesting. Did you use any compound or just bare???

cudgee wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 4:49 am I don't know how much they cost over there or the availability of spare rods...

$20 at Knife Center. Spare rods can be found, I believe without much difficulty. I'll shoot you a message when mine arrives.

Mumbleypeg wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 5:06 am I also have ceramic stones and rods (Case Moonstone for example), and diamond plate “stones”. They don’t need oil. And a couple of thick pieces of leather, which I seldom use although they work great if you want a shaving edge. One of them belonged to my grandfather and is a piece from an old leather conveyor belt - it’s probably at least 100 years old.

Ditto what Cudgee said: I'd love to see that strop! And you are, of course, correct about the coarser stone being more absorbent.

I'll keep at it. Thanks again for the help, y'all!

Dan In MI wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 8:22 am

cudgee wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 4:49 am I don't know how much they cost over there or the availability of spare rods...

$20 at Knife Center. Spare rods can be found, I believe without much difficulty. I'll shoot you a message when mine arrives.

Mumbleypeg wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 5:06 am I also have ceramic stones and rods (Case Moonstone for example), and diamond plate “stones”. They don’t need oil. And a couple of thick pieces of leather, which I seldom use although they work great if you want a shaving edge. One of them belonged to my grandfather and is a piece from an old leather conveyor belt - it’s probably at least 100 years old.

Ditto what Cudgee said: I'd love to see that strop! And you are, of course, correct about the coarser stone being more absorbent.

I'll keep at it. Thanks again for the help, y'all!

Twenty Bucks, that's cheap.

Mumbleypeg wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 5:06 am Although they do sell them I’ve never owned a “water stone” specifically made for use with water.

Ken, the (inexpensive) waterstones I have are quite a bit softer than my carborundum, India, etc. I like that about them, preferring a friable stone (fancy college word for “weak binder, sheds grit easily”). I sometimes use them dry for just a touch up, or spray a couple squirts from a spray bottle to dampen them. Occasionally, if I’m sharpening several knives, I’ll just use them in the kitchen sink with a trickle running. I don’t soak them thoroughly like some people recommend.

Parker

Mumbleypeg wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 5:06 am I’ve never owned a “water stone” specifically made for use with water.

catspa wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 2:10 pm Ken, the (inexpensive) waterstones I have are quite a bit softer than my carborundum, India, etc.

As to waterstones, Ken, if you have an opportunity to buy/try one I would recommend you give it a go.
As Parker says, they are a soft stone but they get harder as you get to the finer grit and then they are still comparatively soft as to carborundum stones. As your blade gets sharper you can cut them slightly, if you get the edge into the stone.
They cut much faster than earthstones and carborundum stones but the trade off is that they are soft.
I have 800, 1200, and 8000 grit. (I initially bought these for my woodworking chisels.) I have used these stones for years. The 800 is quite noticeably dished but the 1200 needs a straight edge to reveal how minimally it is dished and the 8000 is not dished at all.
I like them. I use mine under running water as well and I don't soak them. They are a great tool.
For me, they have taken second place to the diamond stone.

Okay folks, since you asked here are some pictures of the leather “strop” piece made from an old conveyor belt. I took a picture of the edge also, hope you can see how it is laminated from multiple thin pieces of leather. It’s about 3/8ths of an inch thick total. I don’t use any compound with it, but it does have some kind of natural “oil” that comes to the surface with use. It doesn’t puddle there but you can see moisture on the surface as you’re stropping. Maybe from years of use either in the mine (I suspect they used some kind of treatment to keep it limber) or from sharpening. I’ve had it since my grandfather’s passing, in 1968. The Case 6318 is for size perspective.
Also included a picture of some other miscellaneous sharpening pieces that live in the same bag with the leather piece. The black one is stamped “Buck” on the chromed metal pocket clip, the knurled piece can be turned/loosened to allow the rod to be extended or retracted into the handle. The other smaller one is some kind of hardened steel with a striated surface. Sort of a small version of a chef’s steel.

Ken

That old strop is great, and the 6318 is a real beauty!

If you use oil on your sharpening stones, just switch to a food-grade mineral oil. It is perfectly safe on kitchen knives (even wooden handles), and is odorless and tasteless.
Olive oil is also a good oil on kitchen knives, as it won't turn rancid.

Olive oil is in a dark bottle to stop it from starting to go rancid, once exposed to air it will eventually go rancid. It would not be a problem for knives as you are using them all the time. But it is something i personally would not use for knives, just my personal choice.

Mumbleypeg wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 3:25 pm Okay folks, since you asked here are some pictures of the leather “strop” piece made from an old conveyor belt. I took a picture of the edge also, hope you can see how it is laminated from multiple thin pieces of leather. It’s about 3/8ths of an inch thick total. I don’t use any compound with it, but it does have some kind of natural “oil” that comes to the surface with use. It doesn’t puddle there but you can see moisture on the surface as you’re stropping. Maybe from years of use either in the mine (I suspect they used some kind of treatment to keep it limber) or from sharpening. I’ve had it since my grandfather’s passing, in 1968. The Case 6318 is for size perspective.

02B1B35D-CF7B-4605-8069-85440996A472.jpeg
4EC6CBFD-8489-490C-A3BE-A6FA453F243B.jpeg

Also included a picture of some other miscellaneous sharpening pieces that live in the same bag with the leather piece. The black one is stamped “Buck” on the chromed metal pocket clip, the knurled piece can be turned/loosened to allow the rod to be extended or retracted into the handle. The other smaller one is some kind of hardened steel with a striated surface. Sort of a small version of a chef’s steel.

Ken

Ken thanks for the photos, i can see why it would be great stropping leather. May be able to help you with the " oil " that comes to the surface. There are some leathers that are better for strops, they contain more silicates than others, i suspect you have this sort of leather. The best strop leather for plain stropping, eg. no compounds, is achieved by a process called boning. This process is the leather being pulled through heavy rollers to bring all the silicates to the surface, this helps the surface of the leather in the stropping process. I suspect that your piece of leather have being used on a conveyor belt was put under extreme pressure similar to the rolling process in boning. The fact that there are layers of leather that may have some affect in bringing these silicates to the surface and it appears as oil. This is only speculation on my part as i have never heard of it happening before, but i have never heard of conveyor belt leather being used as a strop before, there has to be reason and i suspect this is it. Whatever, you may have the best piece of leather available for a leather strop, i reckon you have. But the actual process is called boning. Hope this helps with what may be happening with your brilliant strop.

Thanks for the comments. And for the education about leather cudgee. Whatever it has, and however it got it, it does make a good stropping leather. My grandfather was a deep shaft coal miner. Unfortunately I don’t know much of the story behind how he came to have the piece of leather, other than that it was part of a conveyer belt in a mine. Wish I had a bigger piece of it, and a couple more pieces to pass on to my sons.

An old boot top of oiled leather tightly laced around a piece of wood makes a good strop, It’s interesting what can be used to “polish” an edge to shaving sharp. While sitting around a campfire I’ve used the “upper” of a leather boot (while wearing it), newsprint, the canvas of a tent, and the palm of my hand. Some materials take longer than others but it’s interesting to try what you have at hand and see if it will work, especially if you’re not in a hurry.

Ken

cudgee wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 1:19 am Olive oil is in a dark bottle to stop it from starting to go rancid, once exposed to air it will eventually go rancid. It would not be a problem for knives as you are using them all the time. But it is something i personally would not use for knives, just my personal choice.

Thanks Cudgee, I didn't know that before today!
I am thankful for all who freely share on this site - I learn something new all of the time!

Reverand wrote: ↑Thu May 26, 2022 10:43 pm

cudgee wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 1:19 am Olive oil is in a dark bottle to stop it from starting to go rancid, once exposed to air it will eventually go rancid. It would not be a problem for knives as you are using them all the time. But it is something i personally would not use for knives, just my personal choice.

Thanks Cudgee, I didn't know that before today!
I am thankful for all who freely share on this site - I learn something new all of the time!

No worries my friend. That is one of the great things about here, there are always little tit-bits being posted that we did not know about. A great place to learn. Have a good evening.

cudgee wrote: ↑Thu May 26, 2022 10:47 pm

Reverand wrote: ↑Thu May 26, 2022 10:43 pm

cudgee wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 1:19 am Olive oil is in a dark bottle to stop it from starting to go rancid, once exposed to air it will eventually go rancid. It would not be a problem for knives as you are using them all the time. But it is something i personally would not use for knives, just my personal choice.

Thanks Cudgee, I didn't know that before today!
I am thankful for all who freely share on this site - I learn something new all of the time!

No worries my friend. That is one of the great things about here, there are always little tit-bits being posted that we did not know about. A great place to learn. Have a good evening.

I use bacon lard for sharpening, when I use oil at all. It does get a bit rancid after a year or two, but nothing like you might expect. It might not be good to use on a porous stone. But it is fine on a soft or hard Arkansas. And I always have a fresh supply at hand!

Dinadan wrote: ↑Thu May 26, 2022 11:04 pm

cudgee wrote: ↑Thu May 26, 2022 10:47 pm

Reverand wrote: ↑Thu May 26, 2022 10:43 pm

Thanks Cudgee, I didn't know that before today!
I am thankful for all who freely share on this site - I learn something new all of the time!

No worries my friend. That is one of the great things about here, there are always little tit-bits being posted that we did not know about. A great place to learn. Have a good evening.

I use bacon lard for sharpening, when I use oil at all. It does get a bit rancid after a year or two, but nothing like you might expect. It might not be good to use on a porous stone. But it is fine on a soft or hard Arkansas. And I always have a fresh supply at hand!

How long have you been using bacon lard for ???

Mumbleypeg wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 3:25 pm Okay folks, since you asked here are some pictures of the leather “strop” piece made from an old conveyor belt. I took a picture of the edge also, hope you can see how it is laminated from multiple thin pieces of leather. It’s about 3/8ths of an inch thick total. I don’t use any compound with it, but it does have some kind of natural “oil” that comes to the surface with use. It doesn’t puddle there but you can see moisture on the surface as you’re stropping. Maybe from years of use either in the mine (I suspect they used some kind of treatment to keep it limber) or from sharpening. I’ve had it since my grandfather’s passing, in 1968. The Case 6318 is for size perspective.

02B1B35D-CF7B-4605-8069-85440996A472.jpeg
4EC6CBFD-8489-490C-A3BE-A6FA453F243B.jpeg

Also included a picture of some other miscellaneous sharpening pieces that live in the same bag with the leather piece. The black one is stamped “Buck” on the chromed metal pocket clip, the knurled piece can be turned/loosened to allow the rod to be extended or retracted into the handle. The other smaller one is some kind of hardened steel with a striated surface. Sort of a small version of a chef’s steel.

Ken

Just thought i would let you know. I really liked the idea of your grandfathers strop, they were so inventive and creative back then and made use of what was available. Have just ordered 2 pieces of leather on the Bay, i am going to glue them together to make a easy to carry strop like your Grandfathers. Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

Mumbleypeg wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 3:25 pm Okay folks, since you asked here are some pictures of the leather “strop” piece made from an old conveyor belt. I took a picture of the edge also, hope you can see how it is laminated from multiple thin pieces of leather. It’s about 3/8ths of an inch thick total. I don’t use any compound with it, but it does have some kind of natural “oil” that comes to the surface with use. It doesn’t puddle there but you can see moisture on the surface as you’re stropping. Maybe from years of use either in the mine (I suspect they used some kind of treatment to keep it limber) or from sharpening. I’ve had it since my grandfather’s passing, in 1968. The Case 6318 is for size perspective.

02B1B35D-CF7B-4605-8069-85440996A472.jpeg
4EC6CBFD-8489-490C-A3BE-A6FA453F243B.jpeg

Also included a picture of some other miscellaneous sharpening pieces that live in the same bag with the leather piece. The black one is stamped “Buck” on the chromed metal pocket clip, the knurled piece can be turned/loosened to allow the rod to be extended or retracted into the handle. The other smaller one is some kind of hardened steel with a striated surface. Sort of a small version of a chef’s steel.

Ken

Ken, just a question. Are the surfaces of your Grandfathers strop smooth or are they the the rougher untreated surfaces, or one of each. ???

cudgee wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 1:40 am
Ken, just a question. Are the surfaces of your Grandfathers strop smooth or are they the the rougher untreated surfaces, or one of each. ???

Smooth on both sides. They are identical.

Ken